Thompson should be ahead of Richards on the basis of his performances this season (his game vs Widnes this year was the most accomplished of any of our young forwards have had imo) but has had concussive issues and the club are rightly proceeding cautiously.

I have bee worried for a while Savelio is becoming more and more like LMS in not really having a position despite being physically up to it. Personally, I would give Savelio the rest of the year in the right second row spot, and leave Vea out. It is his preferred position, and whilst he may struggle defensively initially, if he can improve it, he can get back on track as one of the best young forwards in the game.

Don't disagree with a major cull, but its all about whose coming in to replace them. I had defended recruitment this year in faith KC knew what he was doing ... He doesn't.

For a number of years now saints have recruited very poorly and are now suffering the aftermath. There are other factors to be considered such as Roby and Wilkin no longer the players they once were. Also the halfbacks whoever they may have been have not really caused the opposition problems, even with Walsh showing some form and Fages showing promise they cannot perform behind a beaten pack as Sunday proved only too well. The team selection at times has been to say the least rather bizarre and this is solely down to Cunningham as is the lack of structure both in attack and defense. The backroom staff needs to be looked at as Hull looked twice as fit as the Saints. The defense coach should be sacked as the Saints tackling technique is abysmal and leaks soft tries almost every game.

Cunningham needs to show some guts and trust some of the younger players rather than using the likes of McDonnell, Dawson and Owen who are not super league standard and should have no place in any future plans. I cannot see anything coming out of this season so why not start blooding what should be the future Saints players.

Savelio played all his junior rugby at loose forward yet KC uses him as a prop which in my opinion will disenchant the lad and destroy his confidence. Wilkin's time has past and Savelio should be given his shirt for a continued run and let him (Sav) prove one way or the other that he will be part of the future Saints pack.

I agree.

On the topic of defence, I appreciate there's a technique to be learnt in terms of tackling & the resulting wrestle, and the organisation of the defence as a whole...but these lads would never have been given a pro contract if they could not carry out the very basic aspect of the game which is to tackle. So to me, it's an attitude issue rather than a technique issue. Daniel Anderson turned a Saints side who's philosophy at the time was 'if you score 30 then we'll score 40', to a side that took great pride in defending the line. He did this without showing half the team the exit and instead tweaked and honed what he already had.

This is obviously just an opinion and I accept that it could be wrong, but the weak tackling is a symptom of a lack of commitment. The reasons for that I just don't know. And looking at KC's interview on the St.Helens Star website, he doesn't know either.

Our weak tackling is probably the most easiest aspect of our game to fix and I find it unbelievable that they can't show some technique and effort and will to improve the situation. We all see it in almost every game over the last 3 seasons, our approach is a sliding defence which means in most cases we tackle the upper body first, the opposition can still drive to make metres and we lose control of the ruck, our players work very hard to try and stop momentum but we rarely tackle around the lower body and follow up with wrapping up the ball. If Sean Long is in charge of our defence then KC has to take a lot of responsilbity for this.

We only have 3 players who can tackle around the legs in Lomax, Swift and Roby, the majority of the rest are "tackle grabbers" who can't bend there backs, our emphasis on a sliding defence needs to be replaced with good line speed and tackle impact to control the ruck area. The last time I checked we are the worse team in super league for mis-tackles which means we have lots of minutes when we are not in control of the game.

I can't see any justification, reason or excuse for him to remain as head coach as things stand. It would have to take something extraordinary to turn this around.

I agree with the above that recruitment has not helped, but you can see he has lost the dressing room. Players who should be playing are being left out (e.g. Savelio/Thompson) and playing lads who don't deserve to play (Richards/Tasi). His press statements are an embarrassment and he unfairly blames the kids, shielding the senior players who are not performing.

Alex Walmsley is half the player now than he was last season and it would be interesting to hear what he has to say. I'm not suggesting anything by that, I just think he looks a frustrated player at the moment.

Another question is who would replace him and I have absolutely no idea who that could be.

The should be no place for Longy at the club either from what I heard few weeks back. He should be gone now!

I wondered how long it would take for him to self destruct. I haven't heard anything but I presume he's done something proper stupid? If it can't be said on here then I respect that.

This is the biggest problem, we can all huff and puff towards a KC departure but I can't think of any proven suitable coach who will have the strength of character to do do a major overhaul of the team(s) both on and off the field.
We are no longer a "top 4" team and McManus can't see the forest for all the dead wood hanging around, to improve our player quality is not going to be a quick fix.

I think we all agree that a change is needed but who exactly is available? As a club we have adopted a bargain basement approach to player recruitment over recent seasons, signing absolute dross in the hope that someone will come good. They havent. We then have a coach who has time left on his current contract that he only extended a matter of months ago. It will cost McManus hard earned dosh to terminate his contract. Then you have the option of signing a coach already under contract.....simply not going to happen because of the compensation payments, so then we are looking at off contract NRL failures or NRL assistant coaches in the McGuire mould looking to make a name for themselves. The difficulty with that one is that whoever comes in needs to be able to change the attitudes of the players currently in the team, so has to be able to command respect and get the current squad playing for him. Thats no mean feat for an unknown name.

Lets compare our fortunes to that of Salford. Obviously an underperforming squad who then brings in one of the most experienced NRL coaches in Tim Sheens. Sheens then signs some quality players whilst ridding the squad of the higher earning under performers. This is not an overnight process but obviously a very costly one.

They are still not the finished article.

Then add in the factor of a wealthy owner with deep pockets willing to spend his money. Then add in the fact that they have allegedly breached the salary cap rules for the last few seasons.

You can start to see what kind of hole McManus and Saints have dug for themselves.

Latest words of wisdom from our super coach

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/36267098[/url



still blaming Easter; apparently we are the only team to have an Easter.

He also says: Quote

"We're quite a young team regardless of what fans or pundits say,"

I wonder if he has some false birth certificates because we only have a few players that are u/23. Don't know what his definition of young is, for me a young player is someone between 18 -21 which if we use that benchmark we only have Knowles who has played a couple of games this season.

I've noticed his choice of words a few times now when he feels he's under fire a bit. He takes a bit of a pop at the fans. Other coaches will say things about understanding the frustration of the fans and that they've let them down etc but not KC. He talks about us like we are stupid and don't know what we're talking about. Somebody needs to have a word in his ear because we'll simply stop turning up at games and we'll have more 2/3's of an empty stadium turnouts like the Challenge Cup game.

The average age of the squad that played on Sunday was 25.

From every interview Ive seen and heard, the body language etc, it just seems there is a bit of an air of stubborness which is one of the worst traits you can have as a coach.

It's another daft piece of PR by Cunningham, but I think he's right about our team's age/experience. The overwhelming majority of the squad is in its early to mid twenties, and we only really have Wilkin and Roby who you would call seasoned pros. A couple more experienced leaders would make a big difference to this team IMO (Paul Gallen would do nicely

).

But are we inexperienced? Yes we have some young lads but these lads been knocking around a while now and played in the pressure of play off rugby, semi finals, grand finals, wcc and even the more intense world series.

I think we needed to replace sia and manu with experienced players but we went with young lads. Those two going really left a huge hole in our pack in terms of experience.

I don't think we're especially inexperienced if you look at each player in his own right, but I think we do lack one or two of those players who have seen it all and done it all over a long period - the kind of player that is looked up to by his teammates.

I agree. We do need two players that have been there and done it. Warrington played a master stroke getting Gidley for two seasons.

I feel a good experienced prop who is a leader is a must for next year. Someone who stands up when back against the wall as comes up with them shots that lift the team.

we best roll out the red carpet for Mose then

Wouldn't surprise me if we brought that pudding back. He's our for full season so he will be pushing 30 stone next year so will be just typical of us to bring him over.

Will you pick him up at the airport, if you do don't use a Nissan Micra.

Need a trailer to pick that pudding up

I know I've quoted myself, but Daryl Powell would be great. If ever there was a saints-esq coach: it's him.

Not only the way they play, but he is a proven coach who knows how to build a team and improve his players.

He's not quite flavour of the month for some reason.

I like Powell. He learned his trade and always has great team spirit. Cas play good rugby and doesn't need large amounts of cash.

He is a yarkshire lad and probably the best home grown coach in SL.

Why the hell would he want to come here to this mess?


Got to say, and I'm not bigging myself up here, but I said from day 1 that appointing KC would end in tears.
A legend of a player does not equal a great (or even average) coach. Out of his depth unfortunately.

He's got better players at Cas, I would have thought Leeds would go for him when the time comes. Powell still needs to find Plan B though when things get tough in those big games, his teams are very inconsistent in defence and are the worse team in super league for points against.