I thought Gaskell took the wrong option far to many times last night. And you could seethe outside back getting frustrated with the fact he didn't let the ball go when he should. I'm not knocking him as it's to be expected as he's a young lad and was threat with the ball in hand. His kicking was terrible, sliced off the outside of his boot all night. He's stood up tho of late and has been fantastic.

Lomax didn't get involved enough, to many slow inside balls that didn't cause Leeds and trouble at all. Came to life a little in the 2nd half with few half breaks. Like I said with Gaskell, stood up all year and been outstanding.

I think if saints stick we these two in the halves then we will get games like last night as they are still learning.

Do you know why that was? I do. Our forwards decided to play in the second half. When a team's forwards play then their halves have a chance. When they don't, they don't. Quite basic really.

He is and he isn't. He doesn't have guile. He's an amazing player but we need a player with guile there too. He was out-smarted by Buderus last night.

You want a hooker who can break SL records in terms of yardage (and other stats) AND be as clever as Buderus (one of the best hookers Australia has produced in decades)? I've heard of setting the bar high ...

No. I want two hookers back again. Roby is fantastic and I'm not criticising him at all. But he doesn't have the guile of Cunningham or Buderus. We need someone who does to bring a different facet to the hooking role. Guile isn't something you can buy; a player has it or doesn't. He could be a young player or an older one. But relying upon Roby only at hooker leaves us open to a 'clever' hooker.

I don't think so at all. Buderus is demonstrably better at organising than Roby. But he has nowhere near Roby's directness. The hooking role is a strange position in rugby league as it has no clearly defined attributes and therefore you find players of all talents not just occupying the number nine shirt but doing well. If a player lacks a certain ability (in Roby's case - organizational) you do what teams have done since the beginnings of the sport - shift the burden of responsibility somewhere else. You could alternate between Lomax and Roby at the play the ball. Or you could even bring Wilkin in occasionally. I'm not saying any option would amount to rivaling Buderus' abilities, but you could get by.

they looked like rabbits in headlights but i dont think they lost you the game, what I felt did lose you the game was taking graham off around the 60 mins point, the turn around started there and with the loss of wellens earlier in the game graham should have been kept on.

I'm going to agree with you. Roby is a superb athlete, but doesn't have the skillset of Buderus or Monaghan.

As you know on here it's something I've been moaning about for years. We are obsessed with quick play the balls and dummy half scoots. We then don't develop players at 6, 7 and 9 who can unlock good tight defenses. I have feeling you may see Hoihia at 9 and Roby at 13 in quite a few games for Saints next year.

Wouldnt be a bad thing for me , Roby is a great runner and tackler plus it allows Lomaskell to stay at 6 & 7

That's got to be the thing to look at.

If those guys keep improving and performing, it's a bloody good set of halfbacks for you for what could be a good few years.

Really? I've only played stand off since the age of 8 and didn't know that halfbacks play better on the back of a dominant pack.

You should apply for a rugby club to be a manager.

Whodo you play for?

Not for me, robes would lose his dummy half running which is a high point of his game.

I'm also not sure on hohaia at 9, he's lookers very average playing there in the nrl.

Don't make dumb statements then.

What's dumb about posting that lomax can't to life in the 2nd half and made a few half breaks?

A dominant pack don't mean the halves will also play well, look at the semi against Wigan, our pack was on top but the halves did nothing.

Good grief. Saints lose a game and dummy spit SaintsFan returns in place of smug SaintsFan.

'Twas ever thus.

these two are amongst the most over hyped players to have played for Saints

Am sure someone more cutting than myself would Pass a witty comment here

Very original.

The turning point for me was losing Wello and Shenton in the short period. It doesn't take a genius to then see which side Leeds exploited for the remainder. If they hadn't succumbed to injuries, I think we'd be celebrating right now.

Especially the injury to shenton who was a rock on that side before hecwent off.

but true

I thought Lomax was ineffective but Gaskell had a decent game. He looks to have all the attributes where as Lomax looks a bit like an off the cuff player, not necassarily a bad thing (Burrow has made a career out of it but has games like Lomax did last night). They should complement each other well for years to come

Nope.