We have another young scrum half at the club in Ellis who fits the more traditional idea of a 7 but I think to move Kyle after1 game of the seaon would be a mistake. I think Kyle needs a good partner though and that sadly is not Leon Pryce. People forget that when we signed Longy he was a standoff and a 'runner' but he matured into a great scrumhalf - the big difference was of course that he had Tommy at 6 to help him

I think Kyle has all the attribute to be a great 7. I truley believe that people can't psycologically get past thet fact that its possible to have both pace and a passing game - probably brought on by seeing too many one dimensional players in that position.

correct !

I've put all his comments together. From what Stevo has said, Kyle should be freed up to cause havoc, not limited to being first receiver! But not because he is [ijust[/i a runner. Yes, he is a runner - and much more besides. Taking all Stevo's comments put together that is what he thinks too.

But by moving him away from first receiver to not "limit" him, you are in fact limiting him massively because he will never develop his game in his preferred position.

It's a knee jerk Stevo-ism to a quiet performance. No doubt he said the same about Long in his early days, now he'll bang on about what a great organiser he is. Long didn't develop his game at stand off or full back, he developed it by playing 7.

For a start off it may be his preferred position but it may not be the right position for him (thinking Pryce there). Time will tell on that one. Secondly, you don't drop someone in it without any assistance. Someone else needs to take the lead until he has found his feet organisationally. As he finds his feet the other person takes steps back until such time as he can take on the whole role.


Rubbish. Kyle played exactly the same way last season when in the 7 spot during Longy's absence. He was put at first receiver and went quiet. When not at first receiver he is better able to put himself in a position where he can do damage. That's what we need him to do: damage. Someone else can distribute the ball meanwhile.

Have your say, but throwing around "clueless", "idiot" and "rubbish" at me for expressing an opinion does you no favours.

From memory Kyle started 3 games at 7 last year:

Warrington away - stars, win, 40 points scored.
Quins away - stars, win, 44 points scored.
Wigan at home - stars, win, match winning try.

You may say that he didn't do damage in those games, I would disagree. I won't call you clueless, an idiot or your opinion rubbish though.

There may have been other starts at 7 that I have missed, and I'll be happy to reconsider if there are.

I don't care what your opinion of my posts is. Has that not registered with you yet?

I'm not arguing a point about which I do not have the information to hand.

I would like to know who was first receiver in those games and if it was Kyle, whether he remained in that role for the whole of each match.

I have not said that Kyle hasn't caused damage for us. I have said that I believe he causes damage when allowed to roam free. I believe that's where his skill lies.

You think he's at his best when he's free to roam, yet you think he was at his best in the Grand Final when he played centre? Is there a position where he is less able to roam than centre?

On a general point on the thread (so SF doesn't think this is a dig at her as has happened in the past), he has the ability to organise, he just needs the experience. I do agree that he needs another player to take the pressure off him though, preferably at 6, and at the moment Pryce isn't cutting the mustard.

You can roam at centre if you want to so long as you don't neglect your duties. He played very well at centre I thought but then he was free to spot opportunities and exploit them (he was the only one capable of it so far as I could see). The point is: he was free. He wasn't overburdened by responsibility.


Well, while I've yet to be convinced of his ability to organise, I'm just trying to come to terms with you agreeing with me over something.

I'm in shock.

Where's the Southern Comfort ...

I think this is the key point, when longy started properly in the first team he had Tommy god to take alot of the pressure off him, Kyle is getting nothing from Pryce

I thought you are a RL coach? A centre cant "roam" they have to stay in their channel! where was this coaching course of yours?

Well, I did say flippantly so long as you don't neglect your duties! I was being silly because I'm weary of having the points I make distorted and picked at unnecessarily.

Billinge Lump knew very well what I meant as was evidenced by what he said next. He also happens to agree with my position: Kyle needs support in the organising of things. Now I am yet to be convinced of Kyle's ability to organise, a view which BL doesn't share with me. But there really was no need to pull apart my statement in the way he did. It's wearying.

PS: RFL level 1. I'm just a baby coach. But I said that when I first mentioned my course.

It's only wearying if you make your points too forcefully. I love your enthusiasm for Saints and love that you're keen to get involved in coaching etc. But I do think you sometimes state things with absolute certainty, sometimes rubbishing other opinions, then refusing to give an inch when someone points out that something may not be quite as clear cut as you believe it to be. If you did, it wouldn't be at all wearying - it would be a conversation.

Anyway, good luck with the courses.

i think what the lump was saying is that he has more space to roam at 7 than a centre, or as saddened says in the initial question much more at fullback than any position, but for me he isnt big enough for full back, can you imagine Ryan hall breaking through with only kyle to runover? it wouldnt be pretty!
We only have to see how he combined with Tompkins in the world cup to see he has the class, but needs his 6 to do something, anything to help him except stand around like a lost soul!

Fair enough. Point taken. I will try to modify the way I express my opinion.

(No sarcasm there incidentally)

Your points aren't distorted and picked at unnecesessarily though. Any inconsistancies are usually in your own posts, like the centre having freedom to roam to any great extent. You might like to think I follow you around to pick on you, but I don't.



No I didn't. If I did I wouldn't have picked you up on it. My comments were based on what I believe.



A view that you are perfectly entitled to and I respect. I don't think he's the finished article and it may turn out that he can't organise a team well enough on his own, but we'll never find out if he doesn't play the position. You may find that we agree on more things than you think, I just don't agree with you on Potter and that's the main topic of conversation at the moment.





You shouldn't contradict yourself within two sentences then.

Potter out!



Starting to get excited about the weekend now - big game! The Bulls have a good pack so hopefully we can front up and give Kyle the platform he needs - perhaps Leon being back at Odsal will be motivation enough for him to perform.

I agree. Mind you, the thought of Ryan Hall in any context isn't pretty!!


Absolutely.

He played 7 at Bradfut as well and we scored 40+ points as well. The kid is a number 7 and the team should be built around him imo. If anyone needs shifting into the centres or full back for that matter it's Leon 'I've been on vacation since last July' Pryce. Wheeler to be given a run at 6 if Pryce doesn't get his act together sharpish.

Patience.......Rome wasnt built in a day!!!!!! he has the attributes to make a great scrum half but needs time to perfect them!!!!!!
those who are saying trying him at different posistions dont kno the game that well.......if we start messing Kyle about in different posistions, he may well get fed up and go to the dark side.

and one reason he may stay "in the light" is he will be 7, in the centre of things, not put on the wing scooting round big lumbering RU players

It is impossible to say so there isn't much point in debating about it. Sean Long became the best British scrum half of his generation despite initially being seen as a speedy stand-off.

I've never seen a 20 year old scrum half that could organize as long as I've been watching the game (with the exception of Joey Johns, but players like that don't come along every day). Give it until the end of the season and then we can see how he is developing.

Schofield and Stephenson don't know the game. I think they, despite being fools at times , know far, far more about the game than we do.