In theory, I agree.

However, I also agree with the RFLs theory that we need to do something to get back in line with Down Under. Slowing it up and allowing our halves to have to develop the brains and skill to break a side down IS the way forward. On top, it [ishould[/i see players looking for other ways to gain an advantage, like the good old fashioned offload.

How have I avoided the topic? Are you saying that there hasn't been a decline in standards?



The CC has contributed to a decline in standards over the long term, the dumbing down effects of the CC have had increasing effect in the last few years as players of the pre-CC generation have reached the end of their careers.

The CC has encouraged the use at many clubs of second rate Aussies/Kiwis/Pacific Islanders (often third raters at Wigan, sadly) because if you only have a limited amount of money to spend favourable exchange rates and getting ready made players make these overseas players seem a good bet rather than paying young British players more.

More than that though the whole culture of RL seems to have shifted so that being world class is not really on the agenda, mediocrity is good enough now. The decision of the RL to change the play-off system has reinforced this. We have the ridiculous spectacle of coaches like BN saying that the league season isn't that important, because if you qualify for the play-offs it is best to peak at the end of the season.

I know your chairman spoke out against the changes and he was right to do so.

The structures of RL seem to be designed to produce mediocrity and discourage ambition and excellence. Many posters on this thread are now saying that this now extends to refereeing changes.

The CC isn't solely responsible for this - you won't find any anti-cap people saying it is - but it does play a big part in the dumbing down of RL.

fine, do that at academy level!

the elite league shouldnt be handicapping sides so the poor can catch up, apart from it being against everything sport stands for,

it also prevents the natural evolution of the game

I never thought I would actually agree with you Ski, but you are correct.
Its not just that the refs are allowing slower play the balls. Teams are learning how to get more people into the tackle and dominate that area of play. There is no skill in running from dummy half.
The game needs to bring back the skills to unlock defences, props that can off load, halves that can create, backs with pace that are elusive.
It is not the games fault that Saints havent evolved at the moment and dont really poses any of the above.
But also remember that at th moment, you are still top of the league by the way and there is only one way to go from there!

so let me get this right , what your saying is that if one team as perfected quick entertaining flowing rugby which as been very successful over many seasons, WE stop it ! By allowing s.p.b. allowing another team to invent a new brand of play that they can exploit and perfect for a time ! That is until if we follow your logic we stifle that play ! until we reach the stage where teams are waking the ball up the park using 25 stone lard ar*es ! like the good old days when one team could have possession of the ball for 15 minuets at a time .

Its not that, we need to adapt to the new interpretation of the rules, for example Crabtree doesn't make millions of metres, but does make a lot of offloads and has been very effective this year. Huddersfield arn't alot better than last year, they have just adapted to the rules better than anyone else, we need to catch up.

what new rules ?? just because the refs are interpreting the rules differently this year dosnt make them right. that's the old point of this ongoing discussion, I cant understand why fans are defending this so called new strategy adopted by the refs allowing lieing on and blatent off side at the ruck. by all means develop off loads, and planned moves ect. but not at the expense of our most dynamic play the fast P.O.T.B.

we arn't defending it, but thats the way it is so we can whinge or adapt.

or protest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or is that to hard?

By CC I take it you mean Salary Cap. . . . .if so, then dumbing down successfully completed

its not too hard, but if the purpose of the new interpretation is to make us more effective at international level, than i'm for it.

You know Ive been hearing this rhetoric for years now , first it was bring loads of ozzie players over and our lads will improve to their standards, then it was bring over loads of ozzie coaches and you guessed it we will improve to their standards, and why not put them in charge of the national side !! now its dumb down our game so as to improve to their standards . And do you know what !! its a load of pure unadulterated bo**ocks, if you want to compete at international level there's only one way and that's to ban all overseas players allowing our own young talent to develop, easy and yet we persist in this ozzie clap trap.

Christ, I never knew Nick Griffin was a Saints' fan...

hell Ski your intellectual imput is mindblowing like my old da used to say "IF THA'S NOWT TO SAY LAD SAY NOWT.

and that's what the rfl are attempting with the reduction in quota, but we have to use the same interpretation of the rules if we are to stand a chance.

Australia is an outdoor nation they have the weather for outdoor pursuits, while kids here are smoking and drinking at 12 years old trying to look " COOL" ! over there they are playing sports of all kinds that's why they are so good, they are bigger, stronger, faster, and better coached than us, FACT ! and we will never catch up, and stopping the likes of Cunningham, and Roby and other simalar type players doing what they do best wont make a scrap of difference believe me Ive seen it all before.

England and Great Britain as a nation have been the same for a thousand years, but we still keep winning against the odds, and our rugby league team can as well.

It's not so much the SC that's having a big effect it's the taxman clamping down on overseas payments.

This has basically reducing the amount of available salary to pay the players - for the teams that have used this payment method in the past of course!

Some might say that using offshore accounts wasn't 'in the spirit of the salary cap' , but it is certainly making the salary cap 'more equal' now - which is what the point of it was all along.

I'm sure you can have points deducted for that.

Just one of the benefits of having a banker for a chairman

I don't think so - that would be ridiculous!!

Why would it? Finding a loophole could be argued to be against the spirit of the cap surely.

I think he was extracting the michael.

this isnt the aussie interpretation of the rules though, there would be a mass of penalties in all oour games this year because of what the refs are allowing to go on

the slowing down in Aus comes from wrestle techniques to hold the person up in the tackle before putting them down and when they do go down they are put on their backs with plenty in the tackle,

this is fine and in the rules and it is great if our players learn some of these things,

If our players go into the 4 nations thinking that laying on and not getting back the ten will acheive the same thing, we will see us lose by plenty and give away ridiculous amounts of penalties.

If we really wanted to defeat the Aussies then we should have allowed the game to evolve, when a team becomes really strong at one aspect of the game, the rest become better at exploiting it themselves and defending against it, then another team becomes better at a different area of the game before the rest become better at it themselves and better at defending it, and the cycle repeats and repeats, if we want to beat australia we need to be not only getting better at what they do (which this interpretation isnt doing, just pretending to) but come up with something new, its certainly not taking the PTB back 10years to a mess because some coaches arent good enough to counter what saints have been good at!

and all this game being dominated by scoots from the PTB is a myth anyway, Leeds have been the most successful team in the past 5 years (by GF wins anyway, which is what SL is about) and we have had a fairly slow hooker in diskin for all those 5 years, his onlly colleagues have been Millard (hardly Usain Bolt) and Danny Buderus (who was always more a passer organiser than a runner)

Saints were never a one trick team, and that trick was never that prevelant in the game, what it demanded however was good and organised defense, something sorely lacking in this country and so we have had to go backwards to cover for those faillings

You mean finding a loophole such as a tax 'avoidance' loophole which means that players can take home more of their salary and pay less to the taxman, whilst the club can offer more take home pay to their players and still keep under the salary cap type of loophole?

A loophole that the IR also is investigating to check whether the use of such 'aviodance' schemes have been 'against the spirit of the inland revenue tax rules'

Yeah - I guess you're right, it probably is against the spirit of the cap isn't it...........