To be fair he's not a first team coach and openly admits that. His boss has asked in to do a job until the end of the season and he's doing it to the best of his ability. He's never claimed to be a coach and neither as KC.

We are in a much better postion than we was under Simmons. I don't think we are top 4 team under the current set up as I don't think we can beat the likes of Wigan but I didn't think we was a top eight team under Simmons.

We've just got to stick at it this year and hope we get lucky, I can't see us making any impact on the Play offs but you never know.

While the season has been a shocker, we are still only 4/5 points off the to of the league which is amazing as we've been bad.

Just need to roll our sleaves up, keep working hard and hope brown makes the difference.

We haven't really got one.

You scored a try off a kick and forced two (or three) goal line drop outs.

It's not really consistent though, there's no real organisation on the 5th tackle at times hence why we got caught on the powerplay or put in poor kicks on several ocassions.

It's interesting that the current infestation of self-proclaimed unbiased Wigan fans falling over themselves to assure complete dominance in every position on the park are strangely oblivious to the narrow difference in final score - on home turf.

I mean, the Harlem Globetrotters weren't regarded as the greatest showmen on earth because they scrapped out two score victories whilst coughing up possession like an end-stage TB sufferer hacking up blood.

Exactly, you make the point a lot better than I did. Saints fans are that blinded though they cant see what is so obvious to everyone else.

You keep telling yourself that bud. After all else fails ignorance will see you through.



Meanwhile this inferior Wigan squad will continue on in the semi's and leading the SL table.

No; you said that Roby is one-dimensional as a player.

That poster particular poster makes a better logical argument than your laughable effort as he is correct: we are over-reliant on him, but that's because we have been badly coached into being such a 'plan A' team. There is so much more to Roby's game, but we have been and are being coached in a way to play to his biggest strength which is around the ruck.

That makes us badly coached rather than Roby being a 'one dimensional' player...that's how you put it right?

You cant be serious

, if you are I will have some of whatever you are on. Wheeler was awful yesterday and lost the ball on at least 3 occasions and Saints fans dont even want him in the team at centre, Goulding has been outstanding all season scored plenty of tries and his winger is SL's top try scorer. Its simply no contest. Meli, another player Saints fans slate left, right and centre instead of SL's leading try scorer, yeah right. Lomax, a half back who cant kick, organise and who is a turnstyle in defence instead of 4 Nations and World Cup winning Leuluai. As for the pack containing 4 out of the 6 from Saints, despite it being a pack that has been completely outplayed twice this season and full of players Saints fans want to get rid of because they are not good enough, you are simply talking out of your backside. Bar maybe Roby for McIlorum none of your forwards would get in our starting pack. Added to this on the bench you have these great impact players of Wilkin, Clough and that outstanding player in Hohia and instead decide to leave out the likes of Lima, Prescott, Hansen, Farrell etc out of the 17 entirely

. Roby is the only player that would get in our 17 and you know it.

He is clearly delusional if he genuinely thinks that.

He is delusional, but so are you if you genuinely think that Roby wouldn't get into your starting team.

You have quoted what I said, "and he often makes Saints one dimensional". It's fairly straigthfoward.

To be fair to Simmons, this was something I think he was attempting to change. The scoots from dummy half had been reduced and the half backs were being involved a bit more.

Rush and KC have appeared to me to have gone back to the style of play that was successful under Millward and Anderson (they've said such things themselves), unfortunately for them the game has moved on since then. Whilst these tactics generally work against less able sides, against well organised defences like Wigan's they will almost always fail.

It is such a massive jump from junior development into Super League coaching, if it was so easy we would not need one Aussie coach in Super League, it is the same with ex players, all feel they can do the job and want to stay in the game but the very successful ones are few and far between! I feel both Rush & Cunningham are completely out of their depth and perhaps it was wrong to ask especially so early in the year, it is going to seem a long season.

You've been badly coached by Simmons I believe that. But it's now what 8 weeks since Rush and the balloning in size KC tuck over, have you seen anything change? It's all two obvious to us rugby supporting non experts that Saints aren't right. However one would think that coaching supremo's Rush and KC would have begun to undo the work of Royce and implement a game plan that can make the most of what Saints have. I'll presume you see Saints play pretty much every week, has there been a change? I wouldn't include the Leeds and Wire games in that answer if were I you, as those performances were on the back of new coach syndrome IMO.

I wouldn't have bothered typing my post had I seen yours.

Oh I also quoted where you said: '[iRoby's all round game is very limited[/i', so in response to my question (which you have strangley avoided answering for one reason or another....

) I'll take that as a yes that's EXACTLY how you put it.

Fairly StraigHTforward.

There isn't a change no; I don't see how that question relates to what I said though?

You mentioned about being badly coached is all, and I wondered whether you were referring back to Saints time under Simmons or the present coaching staff.

Mainly I asked you because your posts have been fair and balanced unlike a lot of your fellow comrades.

If you have quoted in your sig you know exactly how I put it, its there in black and white. I do think his all round game is limited, take away the quick scoot and I dont think he offers a great deal, certainly no more than someone like McIlorum who has other qualities to his game which are vital in close games. That is not to say he is poor, far from it as Roby is undoutebly a great player when his team is on top and he is getting quick play the balls. However as as we have seen time and time again, twice against Wigan this season alone, in other SL games and for England when this isnt the case and I dont think he offers a great deal else and is worse in these areas than someone like McIlorum.

If you are getting quick play the balls and want a scooter hooker then Roby is your man. Wigan play the way they do because McIlorum passes the ball quickly from dummy half when needed and doesnt always jeopodise the set and its organisation by scooting. As I said previously horses for courses and McIlorum does exactly what is needed in this Wigan team. It would actually be interesting to see Roby play in this Wigan team to see if he could adapt his style and do less individually for the good of the team as a whole. I also dont believe that any coach would instruct Roby to continually scoot the way he does or play with such little structure and direction from dummy half.

I think the problems under Potter and Simmons are common knowledge, but I can't see how the current coaching staff will be able to do what is necessary to change what's happening: they simply aren't experienced enough.

I suppose it's a little unfair to say that we expected anything much different in truth, I suppose the wins v Leeds and Wire masked the true problems, but they are doing their best in a situation that is far from ideal.

Rush, as alluded to above, has gone back to what he knows from his time under Daniel Anderson and that isn't what is effective in SL now and Billinge_Lump is spot on with what he says above.

See what happens when you add substance to what you post?

There is a lot more to Roby's game than the scoot. Not to be rude or anything, but you (I assume you aren't a ST holder at Saints!) would only see highlights of our games where he would seem to be continuously attacking the ruck and how he benefits from that, so in a way I don't blame you in as such to believe that he is the player you describe above.

The stats show that he gets out of dummy half more than the average hooker (as we are coached in a centralised way), but that is not where his abilities end. He brings a lot of direction to the team because he has got a good rugby brain which means that he can read Ds well; he also has a decent kicking game which is not utilised enough IMO.

I agree.

The simple problem is defence. Our attack may be flat at times and the distribution is weak (seeing as getting it wide now appears to mean having Lomax running with it to take it there). However, yesterday Wigoon won pretty much every collision which was more than enough to win the game without moving out of second gear. I wouldn't even say their defence was that great (because we created enough half chances to win), it was just easily better than our's.

Whenever we were tackling it was to stop the momentum after the collision. When Wigoon were tackling they were aiming to win the collision and then drive us back. Our defence focused on containment and their's was like a budget version of our all-conquering Super League XI side, driving us back even in the last ten minutes. I can barely recall us doing similar to any of their fowards and yet every tackle in the trenches should be a contest like that. Yesterday it wasn't and the scoreline reflected that. Talk all you want about our inability to score near the line but it doesn't matter if we can't establish an influential defensive platform from which to launch those attacks. Wigoon gifted us the ball when they weren't playing well but were able to defend. Their first attack? A stroll in as our outside backs faced a blitzkreig of attackers.

Those same outside backs read the subsequent 'blitzkreigs' very well though, on our right at least. Makinson and Shenton did some excellent work in defence. Just a shame they hardly ever saw the ball in attack.