Hohaia is so embarrassing how slow he is, he looks as if he has to stop just to think!

Can't argue with most of that.

Don't be fooled by the wilkin testimonial hype, he's been this bad since 2007 with the exception of a ok season last year. He's the most overrated player to put a saints shirt on!

For me wello needs to watch today's video because he looked shocking when they made a break. I think KC needs to put a arm round wello and just tell him his times up, I don't want my memories of wello being what he is now. Carmont left him for dead!!!

totally agree he is a complete waste of the SC money.

Put it this way; if it was one of the home grown kids coming through who was putting in these dreadful performances, he would have been sent back to the reserves a la Foster, but because he is a "big money signing" we persist with him long after we should not be playing him (just like perry).

For me guys it is John Wilkin who is your achillies heel. Giving penalty after penalty away in the second half when you needed to be in our half taking advantage of your extra man, he is well past his best.

I agree. Wellens is a shadow of his former self. Unfortunately, he's also the only back outside of the halves who runs decent lines, has an eye for a gap and backs up.

Even without giving the pens away, he's still not good enough.

wilkin has never been good enough. drastically overated tbh.

As with most players nearing the end, the brain still there but the body no longer is.

I think if makinson was fullback today then he'd have stopped some of them tries.

That's just silly. Wilkin has been a good player for Saints. Had he not arrived in the shadow of Scully (drawing obvious and unfortunate comparisons) I doubt he'd be anywhere near as maligned.

However, it is true to say his form has slipped over the past 18 months or so. To be honest I think the game has passed him by. Second row forwards seem far bigger today than they were five years ago. I remember standing next to Wilkin a few weeks ago thinking "This guy really is small".

It's not too bad when your forwards are on top and the backs are functioning. But when it's time to tough it out Jon is seriously outgunned. It's like watching a destroyer taking on a dreadnought sometimes.

at least makinson as a hindley boy has something to prove against wigan. too many saints players dont seem to care

in terms of wilkin mugwump, its just my opinion but ive always thought of him as a luxury player who looks great in easy wins but in true backs to the wall games he flatters to deceive. not silly at all. think he sums up this era saints team who when it matters just struggle to get over the line. although they have half the ball playing ability youd rather have a JJB/Westwood/HH type second row who would leave it all on the field, every time they play, than wilkin. he just seems to be bog standard in big games.

There seems to be too much 'old pals act' going on at Saints at the moment. With Cunningham right in the middle of it. Surely a recall for Gaskell should improve Lomax who seems lost without him. Lance is a hooker anyway and would be a good interchange option with Roby.

Sad but true. Rush needs to make some changes.

I am sure Wilkin will be enjoying his nice, long, new contract...

Probably true, thing is Wello obviously has the experience and game craft at 1 but the only way Makinson or Swift will learn is to actually play games at fullback ... we really should bite the bullet and make the change asap

It's going to be interesting to see what effect this season has on next years season ticket sales.

Wheeler's our #6 for the next 10 years if he can ever learn to stay fit. He's completely and utterly wasted at centre though and will never shine there at the top level and will never impress playing there against top natural centres. The fact that we seem to be committing to him and Jones for the #3 shirt next season fills me with dread.

I think Turner will be our #3 next year. I thought wheeler looked dodgy in defence today.

I'm feeling more optimistic knowing we have Brown coming in. I accepted this season as a write off some time ago.

Wheeler looked poor in general but especially in defence. Turner at 3 and Jones at 4 would probably give us a better balance

I've been like a broken record for past 3 years banging on about the fact we've not had two centres and only rely on one centre.

Looks like I was correct when I said it will come back to bite us as shenton is rubbish so we've effectively playing with no centres now.

Me and another poster on here have banged on and on about how poor our recruitment has been for past 4 years and now it's showing exactly what weve been saying.

McManus has been a spin doctor with the whole youth thing and most believed him. The real truth is we tried to do it on the cheap and it's back fired!

Jones is an 18 year old kid - he statistically has no better than a 1-in-5 chance (and probably less than that) of making it to the top level in SL. To commit to him as one of our first choice 3/4s next season would be lunacy beyond the limits of even some of the numpties who post on here. Either we have to keep Shenton after all, find someone else (and God knows who's available) to come in at #3, take a massive risk on Wheeler as first choice, or an absolutely [iinsane[/i risk on Jones as #3. I'll take option 2 if it's available please - otherwise another season of Shenton is by far the best/least risky alternative.

Not sure I agree with you. Jones looks physically capable now , some players develop quicker than others. Centre is his natural position. If we let Shenton go we'll bring someone in to take the 3 shirt , I presume that is Turner. Wheeler is under contract so I imagine he will be competing for the left centre with Jones

I don't care how good Jones has looked so far - history shows that very few good kids his age and talent level ultimately make it. Maybe if he had freakish talent a la Newlove at the same point in his career then it might be worth putting all our eggs in his basket as it were, but he's (understandably) looked little better than solid so far to date. We'll likely be in trouble if we're relying on him and Wheeler to spell #3 next season.

From a neutrel point of view on the limited times ive seen saints.

1. Hohaia is stealing a living.
2. Wheeler is no centre, not sure he's even a rugby league player.
3. Shenton, get shut asap, he'll probably be on decent wages as well.
4. Laffranchi, don't rate him one bit, seems slow and rarely breaks a tackle.
5. Wilkin, best days are behind him, same for Flannery, Wellens, Gardner and Meli.

So - at what point do you? After five good games? Or is it fifty? Come to think of it - at what POINT do you start seeing Shenton for what he is? And don't give me this [i"after he's made a pig's ear of a fully fit season with the ball given to him whenever he desires and always in space"[/i nonsense because we could wait until hell freezes over for such to arrive.