We have no quality in the outside backs or at fullback. I just wonder whether we are telling the truth about it being the cap that is stopping us. Surely it could just be the fact that the revenue is going to nosedive next season and them making provisions for that. I wouldn't mind that and I guess they couldn't admit or no one would turn up.

But I just think they should be doing more. There seems to be an obsession with promoting youth players, but the vast majority are useless as anything more than squad players. We used to have a very strong squad. That turned into a strong 17 when a few retired or left. Then a strong 13. Now we've not got any world class overseas players in the squad at all and only two, possibly three top quality English players. I'd argue that bar Graham and Roby none of the top sides would want any of our players.

Another possibility is that the club is just paying the kids too much. Eastmond is the only one with obvious quality, but keeping him long term looks almost impossible. The likes of Lomax, Clough, Ashurst, Dixon, Armstrong, Foster etc are all decent SL level squad players but compared to the players they have replaced in our squad they are all noticable steps down in quality.

I think wello is very important for saints, next year he will be even more important with KC going. It would have been nice to get him on a years rolling contract but i don't think he would be happy with that but next year we defo need him so i can see why he got his two year deal.

I can also see why flannery got a 1yr deal, i doubt the is much out there at the moment and i imagine we will have our eye on getting a overseas signing for our new stadium. Teams do plan ahead and ive got a feeling we will be looking at a big name aussie for 2012. He's not great but will do ok, my only problem is he is average just like all our backrows.

Meli should never have even be spoke to about a new deal, he is just not good enough and to be given a 2yr deal is utter shocking by saints, no wonder they waited until the season was over to announce it!

I think the squad will be stronger next year if we stay clear of injuries. The three players coming in are very good signings and with bit of luck leon and kyle will stay fit and wheeler will make the centre spot his own.

Whats next? Gardner to sign a new four year deal ?

You seem to have a OCD with players being 30 or over.

Why does age matter? If your still doing it on the pitch then the shouldn't be a problem.

Carmont and gleeson are no spring chickens and they will prob both want replacing after next season, i bet you won't go for youth, i can see few more aussies coming over.

Deacon is 31 yet your coach said he was very important for wigan in the play offs and also most wigan fans put the loss to leeds in the play off down to him going off injured.

Also, didn't willow ans glass jaw just sign new deals ? im pretty sure they are over 30.

I think you need to give it a rest with bagging saints everytime we sign a player over 30.

You're being far too negative here. Shenton is a good player. You may not have seen the best of him at Castleford, but that's because he's been surrounded by lower-end players in a lower-end team. At Saints, I expect him to step up to a much higher level. In many ways, he's reminiscent of Gleeson - not really on anyone's radar at Huddersfield, then came to Saints and was soon GB's No. 1 centre. Foster is also starting to look like a proper SL-standard winger. And the fact that he can knock goals over is a major boost. Meli is suspect in defence, and he's not a flyer, but he scores a fair few, and it's arguable that he's not been as effective as we'd like, because he hasn't had a decent centre inside him - usually a second-row. Put Shenton inside him, and we might see real threat.

And remember that next year our pack is considerably stronger, with Perry and LMS joining a fit Soliola as effectively 3 new forwards with real impact.

As for no other club wanting our players, I'd wager most of SL would be quite happy to sign Wellens, Pryce, Roby, Graham, Shenton, Perry, Soliola, Meli, Wilkin, Puletua and Eastmond. All of them would walk into most of the SL sides.

In fact, the only bit of your post I think is realistic is that it's arguable we're paying young players too much. Wheeler and Lomax just haven't played enough and haven't shown enough to justify the sort of salaries being quoted on this thread. The others, Ashurst, Dixon, Clough, are squad players who shouldn't be on top dollar at all, and even Foster, after making the wing pretty much his own, is too unproven to justofy more than a starting salary.

Th only definite IMO is Graham.

They're the only ones, i think, a top 8 team may pick up.

and eastmond just on potential. He is injured too much.

Talking rubbish!

Wello, Shenton, pryce, eastmond, graham, roby, perry, soliola and LMS are players that nearly every team in the super league would want.

In respect to us paying young players too much, don't forget that at the moment this is a sellers market in that area due to the reducing cap restrictions.

If we don't pay them, someone else will, like they did with Emmitt.

Never ceases to amaze me how other teams' supporters fail to notice our best kept secret. The Mighty Atom that is former Man of Steel, James Roby.

If you took your red V specs off, you might agree with me. In fact the Graham thing was generous. He is an amazing prop but he is so niggly and ill disciplined.

As has been mentioned the star player at saints IMO is Roby. I, personally, don't know if he would be snapped up by most super league clubs but i would say he could be a challenge to Kc's legacy. He certainly has potential.

Wellens is too old and lacks pace- maybe a Salford or Cats or Cru cru cru- that ilk.
Shenton- is a good centre and worth the risk. He isn't amazing just yet but could be good really soon. Don't know how many clubs would take the risk though.
Pryce- damaged goods and getting past his best. He hasn't been amazing this season even before injury and Bradford seem nails on to get him soon. That speaks volumes IMO
Eastmond- another with potential. One of the most gifted players with ball in hand many have ever seen. But breaks like a soggy biscuit. Worth a risk but until proven won't be at any top sides.
Graham- spoken about. Potential to be best prop in super league but ATM horrible attitude and niggle player. any team would sign him up now.
Roby- Great but unproven. In Kc's shadow. Don't know how well i am to comment other than that. I thought he was great this year though. Next year i will give a sound assessment of him as hooker though.I predict big things.
Perry- Don't know much. What i do know he is an ageing aussie. Who so far is not well indorsed. Saints have a way of making good on this sort of deal and in a couple of seasons would maybe be snapped up by "nearly every" team. ATM too much of a liablity to risk.
Soliola- again don't know much. He seems like a good player. Grand final performance- would struggle to make wakey grade i feel.
LMS- star prop. Could be good but again wouldn't be alking into most super league clubs. In a couple of seasons, probably. The biggest thing about him is he is good [ifor a londoner[/i.

I hope i gave a fairish assessment of those players. Of course I know nothing compared to a saints fan but to say things like "nearly every team in the super league would want" and "most of super league... happy to sign" you have to assume they would be really beneficial for the team as is. At the moment the players you have mentioned are risks and most super league teams wouldn't make that risk.

These are players with potential but don't trick yourself into believing these are star players that every team is jealous of. I maintain my belief that Graham could walk into any club; Eastmond is a risk worth taking (conditioning will make him) and that shenton is quick and dynamic centre. They are the three that have a chance of walking into most teams in super league.

Imagine Wigan rushing to sign them, or Warrington, or Leeds or even Huddersfield and Hull kr. I just can't see it. Sorry.

Warrington depends on a former Saints player, btw, and who was it who scored a try for Wigan in the Grand Final? And Hull KR were very happy to sign Fozzard. Handed him back pretty quick, but never mind. And Huddersfield were just as keen to get their hands on Gilmour. And those are all our rejects, never mind our present top of the range players. So I think you know not what you're talking about.

There is a world of difference between Gleeson and any of the players mentioned. Briers has matured as excellent player for Warrington and i would argue he has more of a chance of walking into teams ahead of Soliola or LMS. A proven leader is always better than a big forward who then disappears when the going gets tough.
You haven't really answered the question (of sorts) how many of those players do you think would be SNAPPED UP by the top eight? I certainly can't see the current top 4 (or 3 without SAints) fighting for them. They have better players in those positions, apart from Graham.
So, my assertion that Graham is one of the only players to walk into most super league clubs is true.


Please, please don't think I am belittling the Saints academy or there record of buying in players. I have said that given a couple of seasons the perspective of the players will change. But ATM these players don't make a coach salivate.

Also I know enough to work out your riddles (I think).

If you had kept hold of Gleeson and Briers then that would have been two names from your current squad you could be proud of. But you let them go. You have taken a risk. Saints always risk. I hope the risk works out for you, like it has many times before.

Which forward would that be then?


Then you're out of synch with your fellow Wigan fans who I have seen write that they would snap up Pryce, Eastmond, Roby, Tony P and Graham, even now with their soopa doopa squad which is all conquering and the start of a new dynasty! But the same goes for Warrington, Leeds, Hudds, etc. I've seen fans from all those boards wish they had a Roby, Eastmond, etc, in their teams. You really need to read around a bit before making these assertions you know.


"I say it so it must be true" is always an interesting premise, I find.


No, of course not! When would a Wigan player belittle Saints' academy products? I would never have imagined such a thing.


So far as Gleeson is concerned, you need to read up on your RL history mate. As for Briers, in his own words written in the RL press just a few weeks ago, he 'spat his dummy out' and left Saints because he didn't think he was getting the amount of game time he needed at the time he left. We haven't regretted it though because we got Longy. And Longy was much, much better than Briers. His loss, not ours!

Firstly I'm not a Wigan fan. So... yeah.

I may follow your style of making up context to things the other person has said.

Or i'll just answer what you said honestly.

A1. Soliola. Grand Final.

I have mentioned i'm not a Wigan fan. but my picks for players that could walk into other teams were Graham and Eastmond and Shenton. So yeah you are agreeing with me. I've not seen support for Roby (the second best player at SAints IMO) or Tony P and certainly not Pryce. As i said Bradford want him. That is all i have read. Maybe i haven't read enough but both the SAints board and the Bradford board see him traveling across the M62. Don't deny that.

Don't be so ignorant. I have provided a long list of reasons why i don't think the other players you mentioned would "walk" into "most" clubs.

Don't know what you are talking about with the Wigan academy thing. But I personally know a good academy. Saints have proven this year that their youngsters will become good. Foster, Lomax, Clough and Dixon are all talents. They will BECOME good.

Yeah Longy was great. He would have walked into any club. In fact he retired to Hull FC, one of the richest clubs in terms of history. It doesn't matter whether you kicked out the player or they sought more money or they "spat their dummy out" i was saying you don't have those players (that can walk into any club in super league) now.

That isn't a dig at your history. It is more a comment on the SAints of the off season 2010. Today you have three or four palyers who are good enough to walk into "most of" super league.

And also a side note Rlfans are way different to coaches at the respective clubs. Even if the whole saints board thought a player was good. doesn't mean they will walk into a club. Just as Wigan and Warrington etc thinking certain players are good. If you had said that "Kevin Brown and Tony Smith say so and so is a great player" then so be it but saying fans like a player means nothing. We give opinions but don't assume it is gospel. I don't think more than three or four of the SAints players mentioned would walk any SL Club. SAying that other fans really like them though means nothing.

Am I? I don't remember mentioning Shenton myself. But there you go ...


You've not noticed such comments then, which is fine.


That's fine. But disagreeing with you isn't ignorance; it's simply disagreeing with you.


Some of them are good already. Some will become much better than good. Oh, and Clough is older than Foster, Lomax and Dixon btw. You really do need to read up!


Well, yes, obviously. And we haven't missed them either.


Really? I wouldn't have known. However, the context of this exchange of posts is poster opinions, not the opinions of coaches. So my response was relevant.

Are you talking about Lee 'This is a tough game, I'm going down injured' Briers there?

2 out of three ain't bad. I am saying that half of the ones you mentioned i agreed with and visa vera.



I'd be happy for you to provide them. I honestly would love to be proven wrong on this one.



No the ignorance came in completely changing the context of what i said to belittle me. That isn't fair. I gave reasons why players wouldn't and you changed it to "cause i said" that isn't fair.

I know how old they all are. Don't worry. In terms of level of playing they haven't peaked yet. That is the point. They will increasingly find a place in the squad. Twenty to early twenties is still young.


It is irrelevent. In fact forget about them in terms of this. This is about Saints players being marketable. ex Saints players don't matter.



yes it is my opinion that 3 or 4 are good enough. It is your opinion that there are a lot more than that. You can't use what other people on the website say as fact. What if a hundred idiots said that i should be signed for Leeds. I know it is absurdum but a fair few people don't rate Mathers even after he saved so many tries for Warrington in the Challenge cup. Many don't rate Eastwood at Leeds but he was the reason they beat Wigan at home in the play-offs. People are by nature ill informed on something.

I said that teams don't have room for players that are arguably inferior in their team and I offered you to provide coaches or officials or people connected to a club responses to provide weight to your claim; you haven't.

We aren't getting anywhere here. Shall we just agree to disagree?

I've just laughed hysterically.



He's still in the top 3 or 4 full backs in this country and most clubs would take a punt on him. Maybe not Wigan, Warrington or Leeds as they have excellent full backs next year, but most other clubs certainly would.



A British international Centre, there aren't many players as good as him over here, so we've done really well to get hold of him. I've no doubt other clubs would've been after him.



The funniest part of your post. You clearly haven't seen alot of him this year, because he's had possibly his best season of his career. Saints were possibly favourites to win the Cup before his injury ended his season. As soon as his season ended, Saints chances took a dramatic dive.



That's fair. Fully fit he's an outstanding player, certainly as good as Sam Tomkins, but his injuries concern me and many others.



Fair.



Unproven, are you kidding me? Man of Steel a few years back, our Player of the Season this year and a regular in the England side. Roby is an outstanding rugby league player and clearly under rated by some.



I'm pretty sure Perry is 28 / 29 years of age, which you'd consider the peak of most players careers. David Fairleigh was 31 when he came here and Darren Britt was 32, both were superb for us.



Difficult to judge on 6 games, but from what I've seen there's enough about him to suggest he'll be a good player for us. Wakefield would lvoe a player of Soliola's calibre as would most SL clubs. Leeds were after him when we signed him - that says enough for me.



3 or 4 SL clubs were interested, including Wigan. Potentially an excellent player and this could be the move he needs. He's certainly a step up from Hargreaves, Emmitt and even Fa'asavalu (based on his last 2 seasons).

Should I call for the men in white coats now or later? "No quality" - None? Then what "quality" do all the teams bar one below us possess - negative quality? The truth is you have lost what notion you had of the connection between WORDS and MEANING.



Either way - it's pretty much out of the club's hands.



See - you're doing it again. If we "used" to have a very good squad why did we finish second after a season with one of the worst injury crises in recent history? I mean, you COULD argue no-one would want any of our players outside of Graham and Roby but you'd look a fool doing it. Knock yourself out.



The truth here is you're behaving like a child - reaching around for any old pretext however obscure and/or ridiculous in order to apportion BLAME to something or someone for not providing something YOU CAN'T EVEN EXPLAIN. Again and again, season after season, you continue to argue that this squad is hopeless. Not worth a pasty. And yet this very same squad has made Old Trafford on four consecutive occasions (we have finished top of the league and won the Challenge Cup). I wouldn't mind so much if Saints had been thrashed out of sight in all four games. Far from it. In two out of our three against Leeds you could argue with some justification that we lost out because of the handling errors of ONE PLAYER (Meli). And against Wigan we were hardly taken to the cleaners despite starting the match with neither of our recognised halves.

By the way the only players not to resigned or confirmed leaving are...

Jamie Ellis
Shaun Maggenis
Andrew Yates
Gareth Frodsham

I can't see all of these players getting released especially Maggenis.

Shauns still got 1 year left on his contract. Might even be 2.

Forgot what he told me but his definately contracted for next year.

I can see them all being released myself.

I think you should ask saddened for a paternaty test

I would say that the only doubt amongst our front seventeen would be Gidley because of his age. After him I think that every single one our them, including Gardner, would get interest from at least one top eight team. To put it into perspective, every single one of our pack would get a spot in the Wire front seventeen and we'd probably even have three hookers that would get in there (including the retiring KC).

You see, you argue every point as if from an unbiased veiw, but there's certain points that, for me, make it seem like you've got a bit of a downer on us.

This bit for me gives you away
Perry is 29, which pretty much anyone would agree is a great age for a prop. He is an Aussie international and has played SOO this year. He's also won grand finals with 2 clubs down under.
Now, if you go on each of the boards here and ask the supporters if they'd be happy to swap one of their senior props for someone of that pedigree, i'm sure 9/10 of them would say yes.

Sia soliola is a 24 year old Kiwi international. I'm pretty sure we weren't his only option when we signed him and if you reckon that players like Pryce and Wellens wouldn't be welcome at pretty much any club in the league the you're kidding yourself. Senton's been mentioned, If you ask wigan and leeds fans whether (issues like wages aside) they'd like to swap him for Carmont, Delaney or Senior, I think the majority would answer yes.

FWIW the days of players being snapped up and having a queue of suiter clubs has been finished by the slalry cap, but ask the species if they'd swap one of their current squad members then its an easier answer.

Why are you lot feeding the troll? Lol his chewed you all up and spat you out!