St Helens RFL = The secret hand shake club

This has been happening for far too long now and its setting us back years.

Awful news

I loved KC as a player and is one of my all time favorite players but I've not been impressed with him as coach at all. Some of selections, tactics and post match interviews had left me frustrated last year.

I just think the job came to early for him by few years and it's like he's learning on the job and imo that's not good enough for a top club.

We should have brought a experienced coach in for two years after Brown went and then looked at KC. I don't know why mcmanus rushed in with KC, he was only 37 when took the job so plenty of time in the future.

Pretty depressing news, it confirms that it is jobs for the boys regardless of what happens.

Lets just hope that KC only appears to be clueless and will come good.

Otherwise it is mediocrity for the next few years.

I think mcmanus knew it might be tough few years with us having a rookie coach. Not many clubs would let a guy take over the reigning super league champions having never ever coached a team at any level at all.

People moan in football about managers not being given long enough in the job to put together a long term plan, and to instil their philosophy from top to bottom, so instead managers think about short term success to keep hold of their jobs. So I can see the sense in offering KC the extended contract.

It was probably too early to give KC the job, however he's got it now and we need to give him time to fulfil his potential like Anderson got at Huddersfield, like Radford at Hull who I believe will be very difficult team to beat this year.

Now that Cunningham's got a bit of job security, he 'might' give the players more freedom to express themselves.

Yeah yeah, sounds good. Or, is it because Keiron Cunningham is very cheap as coaches go. He's probably on a third of what an established NRL coach would command. He'll also quietly tow the line and won't risk anything. KC as a coach is pretty much the opposite to Ian Millward. He's pretty much the opposite to what a Saints coach should be.

The timing of this decision is just bizarre and totally proves my theory that McManus doesn't care one bit for winning trophies. He's not concerned with creating a winning side or attracting top players to enable the club to capitalise on the commercial benefits that being successful brings. Middle of the road is fine for him, no risk. If McManus was your work pension advisor he'd put everything in the lowest risk category until you die. You'd make £15 over the 50 years you work. Solid.

It might turn out to be a decent decision. But why not wait until August to see how its going before making the decision. He's not a coach with a CV so will have no NRL interest and the big clubs over here don't want him. Why not wait and see? There is a decent chance given our recruitment and how poor the style of play is that we'll be 7th or 8th after a few months with the crowds dwindling and he'll be sat on a longer contract than necessary.

Thats the problem with sport today we expect almost instant success in a short space of time. We could have gone for a coach from the NRL but its likely that would be an unproven one who would have needed a full season to get the team underway.
Last season KC played the percentages with a restrictive game plan partly because of the long injury crisis in our pivotal positions, yet he got us to within one game of playing in each final. My biggest concern is that we don't seem to be using the attacking tactical experience of Sean Long, so I,m hoping now that the team is a bit more strength in depth we can go back to the "saints way" of playing, but that needs big improvements from our half backs to get the team around the park.

Christ you talk some nonsense. You cannot compare Ian Millward with KC. Ian had a completely different squad to work with. He had far better players with much more ability and skill. We played the way we did because of the players we had. He had undoubtably the best set of players in the history of SL. Ian could risk things because he knew that his players would probably make it pay off.

No club has the same quality throughout their squad now. That's not McManus's fault and it's certainly not KC's fault. It is just a fact of life that some deluded fans have to get over.

Not much point in discussing your personal attack on McManus in great depth. After the money that he has given the club over the past 11/12 years, how you can say what you have said is just completely twisted and delusional. To be honest, I don't for one minute think that you truly believe it. You're just saying it for the sake of it.

I have no problem with trusting someone and believing in them. As stated at tonight's preseason dinner, this decision is all about having a long term strategy in place and having the coaching team who have developed it and who are going to implement it, in place for the long term as well. Stability in my book is a good thing.

Do you not think there should be some signs of life before you renew someone's deal like this? If we're top 4 and competing for trophies after a few months why not? But why do it now after arguably one of the most soul destroying seasons we've had. If we had started last season poorly and it had started coming good I might understand it. But it's not, it went the other way. McManus has to realise the reason season ticket sales are down and will continue to be down is the style of play on show. If that doesn't improve things will get ugly for us next sesaon. Plenty of delusional people thinking we're going to win trophies and that we have a top side. Reality is we're not any better than most sides in SL.

Don't agree that it was the most soul destroying seasons we've had. We where battered with injuries in key positions and made two semi finals. Arguably we should have won one and got to Old Trafford.

Which trophy can we compete for after a "few months"? They don't come around until August.

The style of play on show has changed across the board in the whole of SL, not just at Saints. Something that you fail to mention. Strange that!!!

Your last sentence seems to indicate that SL is pretty even. So we must be in with a decent chance then. I will agree with you on that one.

It very much sounds as though you want us to be another Salford and risk all stability at the club with the procurement of a new coach and players that are not really available, I can't see anything wrong in a chairman showing faith and encouragement to a young british coach coming within a whisker of getting to both finals under so much disruptive circumstances.
Agree about our style of play, not soul destroying perhaps more of a frustrating one due to the lack of creativity at half back and full back, Fages and Owen will go some way to improve the situation.

I must be one of your "delusional ones", I expect us to win every game, win every cup, be the top side in super league, much sooner be "delusional" than be a "Cherry Picking Fan."

The injuries was nothing compared to what Brown had to go with. Brown didn't have any halves at all in his last year. Brown had learned his trade though and adapted our style and we win the grand final.

I'll ignore the sad one as usual. however I do agree with his ultimate point if not the mantra behind it.

I did not want KC as the coach this early on, but once he was picked you have to back him and give a rookie coach time.

2 years seems fair for him to show his influence on the team. I don't see the rush to sign him up. Coaches rarely get poached and unlike players it's a buyers market.

See how the season pans out and then offer a contract. If he had won SL or the CC in his first year you could argue that would be an exceptional achievement and so a new contract would have at least a reason behind it

Doing it now feels overly rushed to me.

Another convert. You'll be joining me for the post-mortem thread next Friday then?

How anyone can have a go at McManus for all he has done for this club is unbelievable?

The majority of Saints fans are quite happy with Kieron he got us to two semifinals last year with a decimated squad of injuries?

Yes his style of play at times is awful to watch and the Widnes game last Sunday was horrific and crowds will drop off with displays like that. But he needs to get us playing better rugby or he won't see out that new contract.

A very poor decision this early on and may cost us dear if we fail again and need to get shut.

Mcmanus has been the saviour of this club and no saints fan will ever doubt that but that doesn't mean people can't put opinion forward about him based on what he's done for the club. He's human and can still mate mistakes like the rest of us.

I think mcmanus is the best thing that happened to saints, without him we have no club but I also think he made a mistake 12 month ago giving KC the job.

I'll not against KC as he was one of the greatest this club had abd I also know him very very well but this job come to early for him.

The fact he's done well for the club in the past doesn't mean he's immune to criticism, if it is even criticism. Clubs do have different priorities and aims at times. Look at Arsenal in football, wildly successful from a stadium and finance perspective over the last 15 years, but their fans would give their right leg for a Premier League title. I'm a passionate fan that believes that without attempting to be successful there is no point existing in sport. McManus is a businessman and his priorities right now might be long term stability and not taking risks. Not wrong, just different, and rubbish

from both a commercial and success standpoint.



The majority of Saints fans are dumb. They refuse to blame the club for anything and the club can do no wrong. The enlightened few are as entitled as those who are brainwashed to spot that things aren't perfect. At the moment we're a 'solid' top half team but it'll be harder this season, a lot of people just refuse to believe we're not the best team in the country. I don't think semi finals should be judged as a success either. Super League is so weak that top 4 should be a guarantee, but it's not as we've allowed our own standards to slide dramatically.



Of course he will. The only way Cunningham will leave Saints is if he resigns, the club will not sack him. I just hope KC is smart enough to spot the rumblings of discontent and act on them. Get the side playing quick rugby, get it attacking and let Longy loose on the halfbacks. If that's still not enough for top 4 or a trophy fine, most would accept that they tried. KC is a complete novice as a coach and I think not having an older head with him was the biggest mistake. Had Daniel Anderson or Tim Sheens been appointed as DOR it would have been a lot better, KC just needs someone to bounce ideas off and take a word or two of advice at key moments when he's making mistakes.

Does it really make much difference? I mean, if we lose five straight at the start of the season Cunningham will be gone regardless. Yes, he'll be entitled to a better severance package. But nowhere near the sum of money we'd expect to pay if he picked up a trophy this year and we then extended his contract.

McManus is playing the percentages and negotiating from a position of strength whereas Cunningham's hand right now is pretty weak.

Fans were happy with Brown going with the style we went with towards the end of 2014 as it was enforced. Decent forward play, little tip ons, fast PTB's and early kicks to the corner. I gave KC the benefit of the doubt when we played like this (to a poorer standard) in the middle of the season due to injuries; but when we got Walsh, Makinson, the back rowers and a fullback in, we didn't improve style-wise.

You would like to think with Burns, Walsh, Fages, Wilkin, Lomax and Turner that KC can find a combination at 6 and 7 that will get us playing a decent style again.

We seem to have loaded up on backs this year (of not necessarily a high quality) in the hope we can find a good combination somewhere and withstand the inevitable injury crisis. If KC cant find a combination between Owens Lomax SMD Makinson Percival Peyroux Turner Swift Fages Burns and Walsh that can play even borderline expansively, it'll be another long year at LP with next to no atmosphere.

I'm surprised by how some of you are treating KC's contract extension

IMO he is as likely to win a major trophy with his side as he is to being so close yet again to delivering the goods but just falling short as he did last year
Brian Mac went through this self same tough introduction to being a head coach at a top SL side that was expected to deliver silverware and also received the same condemnation from some of our fans

The rest is history and Brian Mac has certainly delivered the goods when his CEO kept the faith in him

McManus has shown his loyalty to KC,Get behind them guys and keep the faith

The difference between Saints and Leeds in that period is that Leeds had several world class players and we have one. Leeds also played entertaining rugby and we don't. But aside from that, yeah, really similar. We COULD win a trophy under KC. We COULD have won one last season. But for Saints to win a trophy we'd need help from the god of circumstance (Easy cup run, final against Wigan or Oldham , man sent off because he's a psychopath etc).

It's nothing like Brian mac situation at all. Brian mac learnt his trade at London and it was a tough tough job but he learned and gained experience from it. KC has got the job at a big club with expectations of finishing In the top 4 every year and winning trophies.

I'd love nothing more than to win trophies with a Saints legend like KC in charge. I'd love nothing more than him to go on and be the best coach we ever had as I love KC but imo at this moment in time, he doesn't have the brain to coach a top club. Coaches can get around this by having Good staff around them but we have Longy and few examples saints mates of his and that doesn't fill me with confidence.

I just hope he's learnt from his first year and we can play Some good rugby but imo we won't make the top 4 unless our better players like lomax, percy, Burns, Walsh, Walmsley and Robes play to the max of ability every single week

But we are always competitive with or without world class players, you are not giving our club enough credit on how strongly competitive we've been in the Superleague. We have had 3 specific "dominating" eras, a long one Saints and Bradford battling away, another long one Saints and Leeds battling away, and a short one with Leeds, Saints and Wigan battling away.......make note the common denominating club here.
As I,ve said many times before Superleague is poor standard these days, with the Leeds retirements the period of dominating dynasty's are now gone, the game is harder and more and more clubs are at the mercy of injury accrual. We've gone for strength in depth rather than a top quality 13, the world class players coming to the UK are drying up, so clubs will have to adjust sooner or later so maybe our club are in this realisation now, KC needs support from club leaders, players and supporters the latter seems to be in short supply by some on here.

Whilst I agree that Super League has perhaps gone a bit weaker as a competition, the result over the past few years is that there is much more home grown talent coming through to represent their teams. This is brilliant because instead of seeing a bunch of mercenaries, you're seeing lots more players, playing their heart out for their home town clubs, and thus gradually improving the talent we have here.

You only have to look at the pool of talent that the England coach as to pick from now. A few years ago there wasn't a decent winger we could pick, and would instead have to chuck a half back on the wing (ie Pryce). Now, we're spoilt with them. And as a result we're much tighter defensively down the flanks internationally than we've been for as long as I can remember. We're spoilt with forwards.

Talk to a fan of a football premier league team, they would love to have local, or even just British lads, representing their clubs rather than foreign imports and watching a team that has lost it's character and is unrecognisable.

Let's get behind our coach and team and stop harping on about the good old days. We're spoilt with the team we have. In my 30 odd years of watching them I've never seen us in a relegation dogfight. Let's judge KC 10-15 games in. He's got lots of young lads, let's see if he can gel them and get them playing some good rugby.

COYS