You hope

I HOPE THEY COMPLETLY FALL TO PIECES AND FINISH BOTTOM HOWEVER I ACTUALLY SAID I DONT THINK THEY WILL BE AS GOOD

Of course he hopes. But whoever takes over at Wigan has to change things in order to justify their existance. That change could easily mean a drop off.

You've also got to factor in Sam's move to Union. That will unsettle things.

Wigan will not be as good, Hoffman is leaving, and Hock will be a regular...



Nevermind their coach leaving and being replaced by his laughing sidekick.

QUALITY

Don't worry about that. We'll just move Matty Russell in. If you think Sam can move and step then watch this kid.

He'll go too. I saw both of them on the rec with Kyle Eastmond the other week practising kick offs, goal kicks and standing still.

This thread is full of utter $h!te spouted by saints fans that have no knowledge of rugby league.

Yes wellens is slow and his attack isn't brilliant. However, he has never been picked based on his attack. He pulled off an amazing tackle on a player that is 3 times faster than him. No one else in our team would do a better job at full back.

Makinson did nothing wrong. He is the most inexperienced player in the team and is already better than Gardner.

Shenton can't do much if he doesn't get the ball.

Meli was superb minus one bad pass. Constantly looked a threat. Joel Tomkins is a very good defender and looked after Meli well but Meli was the main reason we scored any points. Anyone saying he is not a centre, go back and watch fosters first try - unbelievable centre play.

Foster certainly isn't the fastest or best winger ever but he finishes tries and kicks goals. He's better than 80% of wingers in the league.

We lost for 3 reasons only:

1. Wigan finished their chances. They were very clinical.
2. Too many poor last tackle kicks in good positions. Pryce and lomax didn't have the best of games. B
3. We had 4/5 lapses in concentration, Wigan scored 3 tries. Wigan had no lapses in concentration.

Foster is rubbish, if he didn't kick, I doubt he would be a SL player.

Oh and Wellens is hopeless, if I was coach, Saints would be a better team and Eastmond would be in at fullback, him coming into the line at speed with his passing ability would give your team another dimension.

I think this sums up the match perfectly.

I disagree with you on Meli though. His lazy defence, so notable in all our big games, cost us twice. And he also makes dumb decisions about when to pass to Foster. I do hope Wheeler manages to regain his fitness. I'd have him back at centre in a flash because he is dangerous in attack AND committed to defence.

Esstmond was injured.

At times he puts in shocking passes but he has put tries on a plate for foster all season. Beeline was a lazy defender but is a saints hero. Tricky decision when wheeler comes back though who I think will still become our 1st choice number 6 at some point.

Have to disagree. Admittedly wellens is a fantastic fullback and I have the upmost respect for him. However the role of fullback is changing and they are more like a third halfback now. Billy slater and Sam Tompkins are just 2 examples. Ratboy was superb in Attack and defennce as is slater. Wellens is lacking in attack but does support well.
I think lomax would adapt ala Tompkins to fullback and give us that extra dimension. With regards to wellens he could take the spot on the bench because I think he still has lots to offer the team but lomax or maybe makinson or Ashe should be given the chance to prove they are the future and wellens is the ideal mentor.

I agree that they should get a chance. There's a time and a place for that though and a cc semi final against Wigan one of those times.

Wello has to be relieved of his position from the word go next season. Has to.

I agree but once again (for various reasons) we have lost a big game to a major rival. We need to identify our weaknesses and improve on them. Why not try lomax at fullback Gaskell/ pryce in the halves between now and the playoffs. Another plus is that gives wello a break to refresh ( I think he needs and deserves one) and get rid of any niggling injuries.

Got to agree with you Chairmeister; no real issues with the backs (well perhaps wello might be close to the end of his brilliant career.
The issue today was summed up by Simmons - we kept going out wide to our left instead of being a bit more direct or even going to the right occasionally. We were so predictable in that respect.
I'd be well peed off if I was shenton and makinson (who I thought were both v good defensively) but who never saw the ball..

Add to that Meli's missed tackle on their winger and then us letting bambi get over the line with 3 (or was it 4) players sort of half-grabbing him - shame on you LMS, Flanno and Wello, and its no wonder we lost.

However, back from the match I've just watched the recording and for a lot of the time we were much the better team but we didn't use our brains very much.
It is now apparent how unfit Leon still is which is perhaps only to be expected.
It was noticable however that because we decided to pivot ALL our attacking moves through Leon, his lack of positional play in only going down the left channel meant that ALL our play also only went down our left channel.
The Leon of old used to attack through both sides of the ruck area and sometimes down the centre of the ruck area like all good stand offs do.

We need some players in the back line that can do something with tue ball in hand out of nothing. The just ain't any flair or anyone with the ability to make something happen and that's why we can't beat a top team.

Other than that 10 min spell when Jamie scored his two tries, I was thinking we could play for a week and not score.

The game against the pies in Cardiff, the game at DW and the semi was tight but we can't pull anything out of the bag anymore as we've no special players in the backs.

I'm not saying our backs are rubbish but IMO not good enough against top teams in big games and until we invest in some good attacking backs I don't think we will win anything for many years.

Cant agree with you St P. I think our backs are as good as the pies. Who would I want from their backs - none with the exception of bambi.
The problem with our backs yesterday was that - as Simmons said - we were too lateral = predictable and I blame Leon for this. Shenton and Makinson got no ball whatsover and if they had have done the goons defence would have struggled to contain us.

When we scored our tries it was the only two times in the game we actually tried to do something different. Try 1 was the result of a shenton break on our right and try 2 was a result of robes going for it down the middle.

I couldn't agree more abour Shenton, he was very lazy for the first Wigan try. I would have expected more urgency from him with it being a semi, if you can bare it then watch it again, he just casualy ambles across and doesn't put in any effort at all to close them down. With ball in hand he's a good player but he's not what you would call an X factor back, thats the problem with your backline is it doesn't have much X factor in the three quarters like it used to have down the years.

If you comapre this current backline to what saints have had in the past then its very average at best, Wellens and Meli are past their best, Shenton is average, Foster is ok but he's far from the finished article.

I'd say you need a new fullback (need to see how Hohaia goes), 2 better centres and at least one very dangerous winger (Broughton or Tom Briscoe maybe), a new scrum half, another prop to replace Graham, a classy back rower with pace in the Lee Gilmour mould, a better impact hooker or starting hooker and use Roby as the impact after 15 - 20 mins) and a classy loose forward, down the years you have had some very classy 13's.

So you're saying we need 9 new players? Why dont we just get a full new team...

Are you saying you don't ?

I didn't say 9 new players anyway, i said 2 new centres, 1 winger with genuine X factor, a scrum half, 1 more prop to replace the big hole that James Graham will leave, a second rower in the mould of Lee Gilmour thats a dangerous runner with pace and a loose forward. A new hooker to either be an impact hooker or a starting hooker then use Roby as the impact.

I make that 8, so you don't reckon you need to make changes to the positions above that ive mentioned ? Leave it as it is then, that will be one less threat for silverware for a few years.

We certainly don't need 9 players but I do think we need a good attacking centre that has ability to beat a man and a classy clever attacking halfback ike rangi chase.

We don't have the goto players in the backs.