Them type of players are near impossible to replace but we should have tried to get the best quality possible rather than just taking a wild punt that these kids turn out world beaters.

Them players have got to be replaced with senior experienced players with leadership qualities.

I think you've been reading an imaginary press statement. He said that he needed to take responsibility for coaching in terms of the team's attitude. He didn't at any time say he was out coached. He wasn't. But we were out played, that's for sure.

Youve got to admit it, we are looking like a poorly coached team.

No, I don't think so. I think we are looking at a team that is handicapped by not having strike players or pace in the backline, neither of which is a coaching issue. We came back against Wigan, we beat Salford (although most people do, so that doesn't really count), we held on with two subs in the second half against a fired up Dragons, having produced some beautifully worked tries (I saw the highlights). No, I don't think we look like a poorly coached side. We look a confused one, one that has too many injuries and too few players who can make a difference.

We lacked pace and strike players for the last few years to be honest. We look like a team with no idea. We look like a team that don't want to tackle. We look like a team with no direction.

That's because there is no Cunningham AND no halfbacks. With Cunningham still around we could just about get away with no halfbacks. Without them both and we look, well, like we look.

The team we had out last night and against Warrington was good enough to beat both.

I'm very worried about how poor we look.

I didn't say it wasn't. But without two fully functional halfbacks and a leader on the park, it doesn't matter what you put out - it won't work.

IMO the ain't a real natural leader in the entire squad.

We also played more or less the full season with one halfback last year but made the grand final.

We are miles behind Wigan, Warrington and the giants.

IMO everybody is jumping on the band wagon and forgetting that we are only a couple of games into he season.

Okay so we aren't playing up to the standard that we all expect however i believe we have a very good squad that will once again compete for honours this year. As the season goes on we will get better and i believe the team and coaching set-up will begin to start working well together.

Its EARLY days

Aside from the halves where we are lacking experience (and possibly commitment) I don't have a problem with the squad. Given the difficulties of pushing the new stadium through (especially the cost) and the unfavourable exchange rate for NRL imports it would be silly to expect great things. Our forward pack - when fit and functioning - is still pretty formidable and we are in a stronger position in the backs with the addition of Shenton's foot speed and the emergence of Lomax, Wheeler, Foster etc.

We have enough talent to cause anyone problems. But talent counts for naught if the team spirit isn't there. Look at Wigan under Millward. Granted, that squad bears no comparison to the current one. Nevertheless, it was still too good to be languishing at the foot of the table.

Without team spirit even then strongest can be weak.

This statement sums it up and we saw it coming last season as Cunningham was winding down the time spent on the pitch, it was like a disaster and sinking ship if Cunningham was not there, no team or its players mind should rely solely on one player, al;l clubs have had stars like Cunningham but they come and go!

Absolutely. Unfortunately, Simmons has been tasked with teaching our team how to play without Cunningham and his leadership. Some fans think this should have happened instantly just because Maguire turned a side which had already been in about three semi finals into a final winning side in one season. He had a totally different job. All he had to do was basically what Anderson did with us: turn an almost there team into a there team, and by the same means: tweeking the defence and instilling a must win attitude.

However, Simmons not only has to enable the players to unlearn the old ways and learn some new ways, he has to do it without two functioning halfbacks as well as an injured loose forward and fullback, both of which are key positions to attack. He wasn't banking on that and our injuries plus other factors in those positions will undoubtedly have undermined his ability to formulate a post-Cunningham style of play.

Bet you still finish top four though.

He ****ing should have been!

It doesn't look like he's teaching anyone anything. I try and take notice of people who know more about the game than I do and not get carried away with the emotional ramblings that emerge from a lack of constant success.

Most of the 'authorities' on the NRL opine that Royce, whilst a top fella, ain't a first class coach. Our performances this year amply demonstrate that we lack a strategy, modus operandi and any appreciation of what leadership entails.

2 captains. No successful team has TWO captains. It dilutes leadership not the opposite. It's like being at work and having 2 bosses.

Call it early. Call it transition. Call it injuries. Call it loss of experience. Good coaches make things happen quickly. Maguire at Wigan. BenneTt at St George. Bellamy at Melbourne.

I could go on.

We have second best. We need the best. We deserve the best.

We haven't got the best.

Ok, let's take those two. As I have just said, Maguire had all the materials to hand. He had a team that was 80 minutes away from a Grand Final (and possibly CC final too, but I can't remember) at least two seasons on the trot. All Maguire has had to do is put the finishing touches to what was already a pretty good set up and those touches were a tough defence and a winning attitude. Anderson did exactly the same to us but he came halfway through a season and we had important injuries at a vital time, although we still managed to get the League Leaders Shield in his first half season with us.

Bennett took TWO SEASONS to get St George to a Grand Final win, I believe.

Royce Simmons may be a crap coach, he may be an average coach or he may be an extremely good coach. However, five weeks into his first season at a new club, especially given his lack of player availability, the lack of consistency within the team, the Kyle Eastmond saga and the unsettlement of Saints in this transitory year, is no time at all in which to be making anything like accurate judgements of his abilities. It's just ridiculous.


What do these 'authorities' in the NRL say about Daniel Anderson? I'm curious because he got sacked, presumably because the Eels thought he wasn't up to the job, and yet look what he did at Saints. The NRL is not heaven. It's pundits are not gods.

And you have been closer, you have been to three GF on the trot. There are quite a few fans who have been waiting for the fall of Saints and a few more that have been predicting it for years, you have coped well with change, the loss of players and the change of coach so far. May bee KC going is just one two many. Andy Farrell carried us for the last two years he was at the club. Once he went there was no one with the same Wigan ethic left, the Wigan way! We went through coaches like they where ten a penny, looking for some one to take us back to where we where. The main problem we had, we thought it was all the coaches fault, it wasn't. MM has done a fantastic job at Wigan but don't be fooled its all down to him. SW and Rads are as vital. If you have not read Radlinskis book, do so, it explains allot. You may start to understand why a few are comparing the Ashton situation to Eastmond, its not the signing but more to do with attitude.

I agree to the above, another thing is that we are not communicating either particular in defence. Not sure if this 2 captain role is working either, I would give the proper role to Graham with Wellens as vice captain.

Don't think we can make a judgement on Royce Simmons yet, he has had no stability in the side and no organisers at his disposal in the games so far.

If I was doing the coaching role, for the next 2 months (Pyrce) I would take Eastmond out of the organising role and put him at Full Back. Wellens to try and organise from Loose Forward position. We would have to perservere with Gaskell at Scrum Half he is at putting in an effort (with errors) Lomax would go to Stand Off . Don't know why we keep Meli on the Wing when we have Foster who is more reliable at Wing, Meli is more of a danger to the opposition at Left Centre.
In theory the pack looks OK, but is not operating as a go forward unit, for me this is a priority and needs sorting quickly by Simmons as this is where we have lost games so far, we are not comeback kings anymore, giving teams 20+ start (Wire + Harlequins) just means making the score line more respectable in the second half.

Lastly the biggest concern is relying on one player (Pyrce) to make our season, I think fans should accept we have lost the prime component of Stability and get ready for a Jekyll and Hyde Season.

'All' Maguire had to do was put the finishing touches'. Is that not the point of my post, which you seem to have avoided/missed? Answer me this - had Brian Noble remained at Wigan last season would they have been as competitive? The evidence before us would indicate not.

Maguire added something that CLASS coaches have - the ability to, QUICKLY, squeeze every last ounce of ability out of every player, motivate them and develop a cohesion amongst the group that changes attitude.

Bennett may have taken 2 years to WIN anything but that's not what I said. I said top coaches change things quickly and start to make things happen. St George started to become far more competitive once he took over. Save for a poor final season Brisbane went the opposite way.

Read Wayne Bennett's book - 'Don't die with the music in you'. You'll read that his approach is all about combining technical knowledge and an approach that nurtures your players and that you have to CHANGE the way things are done and instil a winning culture and positive behaviours.

Bellamy is the same; albeit with a different approach and clearly Maguire has learnt from him. I understand that prior to Royce's appointment we were after the hottest young property on the NRL coaching scene in Shane Flanagan - someone revered as having a very bright future in the game for the same reasons.

As far as Anderson is concerned they rate him the same as, say, Shaun McRae - decent bloke but not having the sustainable ability of coaching at the highest level. You can get as defensive as you like about SL as opposed to the NRL but their comp and standards are way ahead of ours - that's why they consistently kick our ar$es. They produce better players and they produce better coaches. If they didn't then we'd stop clamouring to bring 'em over here wouldn't we.

The point in my post is that Royce's track record doesn't categorise him as either a top coach or a potential top coach and this is a view, rightly or wrongly, reinforced Down Under. In my opinion this is already beginning to become evident and which I feared would be the case when he came. It may be early, that point I'll concede, but he wasn't an appointment with the pedigree we SHOULD have been chasing.

We need a top coach. We do not have one. I actually do hope I am wrong.

After the ludicrous amount of time dedicated to bashing Potter last season, there is zero chance of SaintsFan admitting we look worse off without him.

Potter is a very good coach and did a sterling job with a decimated squad last season. I haven't seen or heard anything from Simmons that gives me any confidence in him whatsoever.

Spot on and exactly what I've been saying. Potter did a ok job with a injury hit team.

It look like the current team don't want to play for Royce.

That's pathetic even by your standards, FTV.

If we are playing as poorly as we are at present in Simmons' second season I will be equally as glad to see the back of him as I was of Potter. In my view that would mean we had experienced two poor coaches in succession. If Simmons turns out to be a bum appointment then that doesn't make Potter better; it just makes for two poor coaches!

And Potter was flush with resources when compared to Simmons. At least Potter had two functioning halfbacks for most of his two year stint with us. Simmons has yet to have a bloody week. AND Potter had Cunningham, our leader. Where is our leader this season? (Recruitment is the responsibility of the club, btw, not the coach)

Royce has got a better squad than potter had.