I wonder why we are not. Why have we grown some talented halfbacks, too many of them it would seem, but can't grow a prop? (That is probably a rhetorical question but someone may be able to answer it!)

We've produced one more recently than any other team has to be fair.

Maybe its to tough for the lazy youth of today, they would much prefer the glamour of being a ball handler instead of grunting the ball up and getting smashed around time N time again... this youth isnt like the youth in the days when winter was winter, and summer was still winter.

LAZY YOUTH

Yes, I thought someone would have the answer.

Our young forwards are top class.

Frodsham captained England academy against Aussies and people like Ashurst and Dixon were also in the squad.
There are some very big and capable young forwards in our academy/reserves

Where? Frodsham isn't up to it unless he gets a lot bigger. He gets smashed about all over the place in Super League. Emmitt is better but doesn't look to have much other than his size.

He's young with a big frame, of course he'll get bigger.

Yeah, i mean Paul Clough and James Graham really are sh*te!

Andy Platt is his personal trainer.

Nah Paul Forber.

And it took us the best part of twenty odd years to get to him. We're not talking theoretical physics here. Prop is the one position you cannot afford to underman. If you do - you lose. It's as simple as that.

So far for next season we can rely on Graham and an aging Maurie. Bryn has always been a fringe player. Certainly not front line material. Puletua is more of a back row player and Cayless looks to be finished. There can be no confidence about next season on the strength of that line up. It's just not strong enough. Not to mention the strain put on Graham carrying that pack. We certainly don't want another Fielden on our hands.

Ashurst and Dixon are back rowers. The jury's out on Frodsham.

Perhaps it did, but that has no relevance as to whether the current crop will be any good.



I know, I did it at Uni





Not sure I agree, Bryn has been a starting prop for a couple of years and does as good a job as the likes of Worrall, Amor, Bibb or any of the potentially "immense" Leeds pack. We then have Clough who can prop (that will be his position in time IMO), Cayless will re-sign or be replaced.

Next year we will have (assuming we don't sign a second prop):

Graham
KC
Cayless or replacement
Soliola
Wilkin
Flannery

with these forwards in reserve to pick a bench from

Maurie
Puletua
Clough
Roby
Hargreaves
+ youngsters (Ashurst, Dixon, Frodsham, Emmitt, Lucas)

4 props in Graham, JC or replacement, Maurie, Hargreaves with Clough and Puletua capable of filling in, plus any youngsters.

I wouldn't say that is as disasterous a position as some would like to make out. In fact, I would be very comfortable with that.

Moore and Roby may even play 9 with KC adding some prop like grunt off the bench?

We don't know that Cunningham's staying on. If he does it'll certainly throw a spanner in the works of playing Moore. Soliola is a centre who can play back row as cover. Not the other way around. Hargreaves is a solid defender, but he offers very little yardage against the better packs. Cayless is farked and we don't know if the chairman has any intentions of buying a replacement. None of our academy props look particularly promising at this moment (although time may come to our rescue there). I'm certainly not comfortable with this situation.

I suppose since you have your hand slapped on image rights, we are shedding the older player, and we are just plain better than you, you have to come up with scurrilous suggestions.

Didn't your chairman admit on Radio Manchester that Saints were using image rite contracts?


There's nothing scurrilous about the suggestion at all. I just can't remember any player moving from centre to prop in such a short space of time.
Can you?

The last one I can actually remember doing it was Harvey Howard, and it took a few years.

Of late you've been out on a vendetta, I guess I read that wrong... Unless I didn't.

Ruban wiki started as a winger/centre then moved into prop and was a world class prop.

Harvey Howard was always the size of a forwRd when he was a winger at saints.

I mean when he was winger at widnes. He never played for saints.

Type error

I'd forgot about Wiki, but he certainly didn't do it in one season.

Backrowers are forwards and you stated

our forwards are less impressive. At this moment I do not see a potential GB youngster in any of our academy forwards

Therefore i merely pointed out your statement was wrong and saints are producing lots of top class young forwards with the potential to go all the way

So what is it you are saying?? Just come right out with it! Then we all know what you honest opinion is!!

Lets get it out in the open before he pulls on the Leeds shirt!!

In realitiy he was a loose forward who played some centre and was moved into the front row at the start of this season!

I'm talking mainly about props. That said, none of the back rowers coming through are in Burgess' class. Don't seem close.

How many Sam Burgess' or James Graham's come along though? They're outstanding players and it's difficult to reproduce top quality players in that mould. Leeds haven't produced a top class prop forward and neither have Wigan, yet ourselves and Bradford have. For that we can be grateful.

Frodsham is a player who is being touted as a future star, so maybe with time he could develop into a fine forward, we don't know yet.

I do agree we need a prop for next season, but top quality ones are in short supply, certainly available ones anyway.

Indeed. Frodsham hasn't had the good fortune Burgess has to have matured physically at such a young age. Frodsham is a big lad but he still looks a bit like a gangly teenager and at the top level gets knocked around accordingly. Over the next couple of years he should gain a lot of bulk and natural strength and will hopefully be able to make the same impact at senior level that he obviously has in the juniors.

Let's not forget Graham didn't have a Burgess-esque instant impact either. It took a couple of seasons of cameo appearances before he began to make a genuine impression.