We have always been told by cap supporters that its effects would take a number of years to be felt, that the level playing field would arrive one day. Some have said that this season is the one that the cap has "finally" levelled out the competition (though try telling that to Cas fans after their record defeat at Headingley the other night!)

And yet when it suits you (when facing arguments about the long term damage the CC is doing to the sport) you say that the CC's effects should be felt quickly... hilarious and yet so disappointing.

This is typical of the faulty reasoning of CC supporters.

If you have an argument with any merit it is difficult to see it beneath the urban myths, anti-Wigan bile, logical non-sequiturs etc.

A perfect example of the anti-Wigan bile I was talking about, thank you.

Actually Wigan - if we had a decent coach and backroom set up - would be well placed to do very well under the CC.

The Wigan club has many advantages over rival clubs when you look at things in the round - the strong amateur tradition in the Wigan area, the excellent facilities, the big crowds that any player would want to play in front of and of course the biggest brand name in British RL.

In the long run I expect Wigan to be one of the most successful clubs under the CC. I think IL will deliver that over the longer term.

Arguably the abolition of the CC would put Wigan at a disadvantage since in IL we have a conservative owner who wouldn't splash the cash on big signings. It would however be better for the sport as a whole, that's why I support it, because unlike the narrow minded my club first people who make up the majority of pro-CC fanatics, I am an RL fan first, even before my own club.

For the record I'd like to see financial controls on clubs remain, just not the CC in its current form. RL clubs have shown over the years that they can't be trusted with freedom of spending, that I think everyone can agree on.

I would like to see a system where clubs submit business plans which are then independently audited at the start of each season and the clubs forced to stick to that budget. That way we could encourage clubs to grow their incomes, start playing players a bit more if it can be afforded instead of cutting players' wages in real terms and have proper financial controls to stop clubs getting into financial difficulties (which the CC has failed to do e.g. Gateshull, London and Bradford to name but three examples). At the moment we have a dumbing down system that removes any incentive for clubs to grow their revenue and encourages all to settle at the lowest level. Where other sports (RU for example) have had caps they have said at the outset that the plan is to raise them as clubs incomes grow. We have the opposite mentality in our game, that small and poor is best. Its pathetic.

Well said, I get the impression the RFL have "manipulated" the competition this season. We are seeing the top 4 being dragged down into the "middle of the pack" instead of the other way round. I also think the reffing has been very contentious this year giving a disadvantage to the more skilful sides. We have had teams scoring more trys from speculative kicks than at any other time so far.
As its been said the RFL have "dumbed down" the season.

If had actually taken time to read what was said, then maybe you would understand. Whilst it is obviously surpassing your angry rose tinted judgment, I will explain it for you:

"Would you imagine that side holding out the Saints of Milward, Wigan over 10 years ago and the Bulls of 5 years ago"

No matter how good/bad the other teams are, the great Saints side of Millward times was capped just like the current one is. Therefore, the standard of player should be the same, and if it isn't, then it isn't the salary cap's fault. The reason the cap, in your words, took a while to level things out, is because the so called 'lesser' clubs could not spend up to the full limit when the salary cap was initially introduced.

Also, seeing as you fancy tarring everyone with the same brush, never once did I mention that I support the salary cap. I was merely pointing out that the argument presented by the poster in question was completely invalid, but your defensive stance probably tells its own story.

You say the argument is completely invalid but provide no evidence or reasoning as to why that might be. In fact you give one potential explantion as to why a team in 2009 is likely to be weaker than it was in 2003, thereby [isupporting[/i tank123's post (which made perfect sense, by the way, the thesis being clearly that the CC has led in the long term to a decline in standards, and whether you agree with this or not, it certainly isn't a nonsensical argument, it is in fact logically consistent).

I'm not angry, in fact amused would be the most accuraate description of how I feel about your posts.

Please let me know where I indicated that a TOP team (Saints) would have a worse standard of player as they did with Millwards best team, which was also governed by a salary cap? You either cannot or are not reading.

Saints side in 2004 = constricted by a salary cap
Saints side in 2009 = constricted by a salary cap

Why would there be a decline in standards?

Please don't avoid the topic this time, I'd love to hear your explanation of this.

in my opinion its not so much the salary cap witch as effected the clubs so much as the refereeing standards which have deteriorated to an alarming extent , Sky TV wants close games and Connolly and is underlings are ensuring they get them.

Which shows just what you know

It's got to be a Wiganners Fault!!!!!!!

55 years watching Saints "SKI" so i think i know a bit more than you lad.

Senility can be your excuse for not knowing who is in charge of the referees then, old timer.

you might be right there lad ! but i can remember Alan Prescott and Brian Bevan and all the greats that have played the game in the last half a century well before you where a gleam in your dads eye, "Greats" which you could only have read about

Well that is all well and good, but doesn't change the fact your attempt to blame the fact the league has got closer on Sky and the referee's manager is both incorrect as an opinion, but also your idea of who the referee's manager is is so far off the mark it is funny.

so what your actually saying is that only your limited knowledge of rugby league as an opinion which is valid ! nobody else is entitled to one! yes i did drop a bollock saying Connolly and not Cummings was in charge [ senility as you pointed out may i suggest you get a few more years out of the boys pen live a bit longer and wiser and well talk again.

i hope that sounds as condescending as your remarks.

No nearly half as...

show some respect you young jockey.

senility!!!!! Ooohhh that's not very nice at all!!!

The refereeing is of the same standard as it's always been. Fans have always complained about the competence of referees.

You are viewing the past through rose tinted glasses if you think the standard is majorly different, you just didn't have constant video replays highlighting any mistakes they made.

I think that this season it's slowing down the PTB that's had the biggest impact.

I agree, out of all the clubs this has effected us the most and hudds have adapted the best to the new "interpretation" of the rules

Its having a huge impact and players are being allowed to hold down for longer in the tackle and not be penalised. Certainly doesn't help Saints with less quick scoots from acting half back.

I'd like to thank the last three posters for bringing some clarification to this whole sorry " Blame the cap" affair ! , i may be a pensioner but i can still see when the refs are allowing teams to mess about at the play of the ball / off side, and all the rest of the border line cheating that they are letting go. you cant blame the salary cap for certain clubs who appear to be perfecting the art of "bending the rules" to suit their less talented players.

Saints have played of the back of quick the balls for years now. If they havent been able to adapt to another way of playing its not other peoples fault. Maybe you should look at the fact that you cant "create" as the problem rather than just trying to play of scoots?
Wether this is down to the players or coach is for you to decide?

So is that admitting that the RFL have allowed the PTB to be slowed down considerably to bore us all to death and level up the comp?

it should be the other teams job to find a way to compete, to find a way within the rules to slow the ptb down and counter their qualities

just the same as it should be up to other clubs to find a way to compete with successful sides rather than wait for the SC to destroy them