No Catalan is in the middle of prime RL territory and I dont even consider them an expansion club. Their home crowds justify their existance something you cannot claim for London/ Quins or Celtic.

Is that your argument then ? Tell us why Celtic deserve to be in.






....and whilst you are at it perhaps you can give us a progress report on Scarborough Pirates, Gateshead Thunder, Nottingham City, Mansfield Marksman, Liverpool, PSG, etc, etc

I don't know if anyone watched Boots'n'All tonight but they did a good job of explaining the process and what may have gone wrong. The RFL and Celtic club both gave statements as well.

I'm not going to argue with you Div because you're a parochial type when it comes to your rugby league and people who hold your view really irritate me on the whole. People who take your view would have rugby league confined to the M62 corridor and watch it die a slow death. Me, I want as many people as possible to enjoy playing and watching my favourite sport. Suffice it to say that I'm fully supportive of Celtic Crusaders.

Im not asking you to argue just to tell us your reasons, clearly through your reply you cannot really come up with anything coherent so you just choose to have a cheap shot instead.

I'm sorry ' people like me' irrate you.



I'm not even sure what ' people like me' are ?

I played the game for 29 seasons.

I have watched Saints since 1975 and home and away wee in week out since around 1978.

I travelled to Australia in 1992 for a month to support GB Lions on an Ashes tour.

Been to France several times to watch the game too.

On that basis fully aware that the game isn't confined to the M62 corridor. What I do know is that is where it is strongest. If its going to wither and die here in the likes of Cumbria, Widnes, Halifax because of someones expansionist dream at the top level we will eventually be left with clubs all over the country with nobody watching any of them.

London are now 3 decades in and I reckon still cannot top a hardcore support above 2000. Why is Celtic in a RU stronghold going to be any different ? Why are they different to the other clubs I have listed ?

We would ALL love to see the game spread far and wide but where is the evidence to support these experiments ?

What irrates me ? Pr1cks who believe everything Sky TV ram down their throats.

Did I mention Kent Invicta ?

You're wrong. I spend every home match with some guys and one of them thinks the Challenge Cup final should be played at Old Trafford because London is 'too far away'. There are some seriously parochial Saints fans out there and I've just no time for them.

How on earth do you know that this particular rugby league club will not take off in South Wales? Sometimes, timing is all. Do you know how many schools are now playing it in the vicinity of the Crusaders? I take it you know 8 of their under 18 players were included in the recent GB side? Have you seen interviews with the local lads and young men who are playing there on TV, who with their own voices say they are enjoying it and want to make it at the top level? Heard the Welsh voices?

We won't know until we try. We need to keep trying. Mistakes will be and have been made but surely that should not stop the RFL from trying? It's a pity they have made stupid decisions like the mergers of the past or moving the Magic weekend to Scotland just when it could have chimed in with the introduction of the Crusaders to SL (how dumb was that). But even so, if we want the game to be played elsewhere then we have to try and either it catches or it misses.

The only reason I support the Celtic Crusaders project is because I want to see rugby league played in as many places as possible. It's a great game to watch, I love it, and I want others to have the chance to love it too. I think that's easily a good enough reason to support the effort in Bridgend/Newport.


Yes, they irritate me, too. Thankfully, there are plenty of independent thinkers in this world to compensate.

PS: I read everything I can on Gateshead Thunder, Sheffield Eagles, London Skolars, Nottingham Outlaws, Bristol Sonics, etc, etc, etc, yes.

"On that basis fully aware that the game isn't confined to the M62 corridor. What I do know is that is where it is strongest. If its going to wither and die here in the likes of Cumbria, Widnes, Halifax because of someones expansionist dream at the top level we will eventually be left with clubs all over the country with nobody watching any of them.

London are now 3 decades in and I reckon still cannot top a hardcore support above 2000. [uWhy is Celtic in a RU stronghold going to be any [/u[udifferent[/u ? Why are they different to the other clubs I have listed ? "

Answer is .....it isn't.
From a much travelled article:

Attempts to introduce professional rugby league for Welsh clubs have, to date, all failed. Merthyr Tydfil and Ebbw Vale joined for the 1907/8 season; followed closely behind Aberdare, Barry, Mid-Rhondda, and Treherbert joined in 1908/9.

Aberdare, Barry, and Mid-Rhondda dropped out after that season, with Treherbert following the next year. Merthyr Tydfil lasted until 1910/11, and Ebbw Vale was the last of these to leave, after 1911/12. The next Welsh club was Pontypridd, who joined in 1926/27; only to dropped out after 8 games of the 1927/8 season. A Cardiff club participated in the 1951/2 season, but disbanded after that season.

Following in the footsteps of Fulham (now the Harlequins Rugby League), Cardiff City F.C. decided to enter a team for the 1981/2 season. The Blue Dragons, as they were known, shared Ninian Park with the Bluebirds until the 1983/4 season, when the club went into liquidation. They were then moved to Bridgend for the 1984/5 season, where they placed on the bottom of the table, and were expelled after the season for failing to obtain a home ground. The final professional rugby league club was South Wales RLFC, who placed 6th in the Second Division in 1996. Because of small crowds, the club withdrew from the league before the next season.

In 2006 a new professional team, to be known as Celtic Crusaders entered the Rugby League National Leagues in League Two. This team is in fact a resurrection of the now defunct Celtic Warriors rugby union side.


They've had their chances in South Wales.
horse/dead/a/flogging --- rearrange at your leisure.

There is some evidence to show that both codes of rugby are losing popularity with young lads - they prefer football many travelling to Anfield and United on season tickets.

Common sense would dictate that the RFL work with the areas that have realistic chances of success not spreading the game so thinly that is just disappears.

I fully agree, I'm a Saints fan living and working down in the south east and when I've been to Quins this is what I see.Quins(and the teams that came before) have done a lot for grass roots RL down south and there are a fair few amature teams in London and in the south east,however,these people don't seem to go and watch Quins play. These are the attendances from the Quins site regarding their last home games against Salford-2,612,against Bradford- 3,112 and against Saints- 4,258 -not good enough after 30 odd years of rugby league in London.

And as for rugby league in Wales I do think "the powers that be" are just being bloody minded-why the did'nt leave Celtic in the first division and see if they could grow there own fanbase and bring on there own players? they had to force the issue and now they have blown the very slim chance they had of a settled club in Wales !

yes he would have said

"these things don't happen at wigan" then promptly taken all the money out of celtic's bank account and transfered it into wigan's to ensure that no one knew about fielden's ridiculous transfer fee and sallary cap breaching wages!

i could go on but the venom in my throat is begining to stick!


god i hate that man, the man who tried everything to ensure his wallet was full at the expense of rugby league (with the exception of one club)

the man who thought widnes and wire should merge!

that calder was a viable option for a yorkshire hybrid team name

aarrrggghhhh! i will stop now before i get carried away!

If News International had never come into Rugby League we would never have been in the position we are today, the real problem is the major funding from Sky has been totally wasted mostly on vastly increased wage bills, okay nothing like footballers, but if Sky were ever to withdraw or reduce funding (This season they only paid £250,000 for the Charity Shield) our game will go back to being semi-professional and even part time.

There is a problem in London, more amateurs and sometimes young people are playing the game than in many parts of the North, but for some reason these who participate are not being turned into becoming loyal fans and supporters. Is it just the size of London, I hear some people in St Helens area of Eccleston tell me they that many of them will not go to the new ground regular, as they have always walked to Knowsley Road, if people have that mind thinking is it a reflection of our game?

Well I'd like to see super league rugby in Widnes as they deserve it, plain and simple and meet the RFL criteria. They'd have the 7th or 8th best supported team in the comp above/equal the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Harlequins, Huddersfield and Castleford.

Fact is that expansion is great in principle but NOT at the expnse and possibly survival of established well supported clubs in the heartlands.
Look at the track record.

Gateshead - Failed
Paris - Failed
Catalans - success (Rugby league hotbed as people have said)

Is there anything to suggest at all that a team in a non heartland area and with a low density of population in Celtic's case can sustain a SL standard team? No I don't think there is.

There are still many RL Clubs in the heartlands that will never attract big attendances to Super League standards, i doubt Leigh will ever except for one or two Derby matches. But as I said earlier it is pity help us if and when Sky do withdraw if it say became a parochial small time game again. I don't like Murdock and News International but he saved our game, I bet he will never back away from Union!

It just annoys me how still every week in the letters pages of the weekly RL press this debate still goes on about teams who did not make the cut for the first Super League Franchise round, it is over and done, the past now! but I have so much respect and admiration for the Widnes Chairman, what an example to so many others, not one word, her just got down to the job in hand to ensure they make it next time around and I have no doubt they will!

Cheers mate for your kind words.

Whislt I do agree, I try really hard not to come across as bitter and twisted. I think SOC's attitude should be applauded though, like the Quins fan above stated he has knuckled down since hearing of the 'rejection' last July. Although i must be honest, I always had us down as a rank outsider anyway,despite the fact I thought our bid was the most honest and professionally put together.

Was reading through a programme the other day from 2003, we played London at home on Good friday, was a crowd of over 7000. OK that to some may not seem like a lot, but for a town of just about 60000 with a massive influx of 'scouse overspill' I feel it to be quite impressive.

Anyway, I feel providing we win at least one more NRC and possibly a GF, and keep a steady average gate preferably above 4000 we should be a safe bet. But I wouldn't trust the rfl as far as I can throw them

Speaks volumn's when the governing body of the sport is held in such low esteem

we need a cumbrian contingent, drawing from the big 3 professional clubs up there.

Cumbrian is an RL hotbed and could support a franchise

I'd agree but imo it shouldnt be at the expense of a team in Wales ... people need to give the welsh team some time and this little mishap should be looked at along with all the other factors when the licences come up again.

I beg your pardon

, are you now coming round to the fact Im always right?

Fine. And maybe Widnes will get in next time around. That doesn't mean to say Celtic Crusaders will or should not be in Superleague. They have two more years at top flight. If they come through this debacle unscathed and if they recruit wisely (they certainly have more time than last time) then if they meet the criteria they shouldn't be ejected from Superleague just to let Widnes in.


I'm quite sure all clubs in the heartlands would consider themselves justified to take up a Superleague spot, if only because they've been around since the year dot. But that isn't feasible unless we go back to the old system of one league. So there has to be some distinguishing criteria and if there are heartlands clubs - well followed or not - who don't meet that criteria then they cannot be in Superleague.


Gateshead is still going. I could have sworn I sat watching Saints play them just a couple of months ago.


Return to me in two more years and let's see whether what you say is justified.

They have just been re-named

Now known as the North Queensland Thunder

You stalking me?

Do you want to be stalked ?



Just perusing some of the club boards now that things have settled down on the VT and the Celtic boards

The issue with the use of these players is not what has happened in SL this year or wether they should remain in SL next year , the answers to those questions are

Not a lot and yes they should

The issue is that they have had a potential massive effect on clubs in the NL's

They have denied a club promotion to NL 1 in 2007 and they have also denied a NL1 club from qualifying to apply to SL in 2011

Just imagine how the fans of the club finishing 3 rd last year in NL 1 feel at this moment , They would have made the 2007 NL 1 GF which would have allowed them already to be preparing a SL application

The implications of that are huge

Gateshead is a re-formed club, the original Thunder were absorbed by Hull, read your SL history, same as Sheffield with Huddersfield.

Widnes do meet the Criteria, they were denied by their recent financial history and yet Richard Lewis had promised them that it would not go against them. He went back on his word, fact.

Also Celtic were promoted from NL2 to NL1 on false pretenses as they had some of those now deported/banned players in that side that came up in 2007 to play in NL1 in 2008.
In case you didn't know you had to be in NL1 to apply so by definition they should be kicked out the comp as they would not have been in a position in 2008 to even submit a SL licence application, let alone have it accepted.