Squad NRL players are unlikely to be superstars, but if you do your homework there are gems around. For example, I saw Steve Michaels playing Queensland Cup and thought he was bog average in that competition - much too small for an outside back nowadays. I was stunned when Hull signed him. But there are other players in that competition who'd go very well in SL squads.

I think people saying future England player was always excessive. Jones has always been solid, but I see him as a workhorse that helps you win games, rather than someone who is going to win you a match. He'd be in my first choice 17 simply for the fact that he's got a great work rate, he's mobile for a forward and he doesn't really miss many tackles.

However, I think he lacks impact with the ball to be a top quality player - Wilkin has made more metres with the ball despite playing most of the season in the halves, and Vea has only made 70 metres less than him, having played 10 less matches.

I've never seen him play, but in defence of Peyroux, if he can cover wing, centre and second row, he's a pretty handy player to have in your squad. He's mainly a centre - both of NZ Warriors first-choice centres are Tonga's centres. Their main backrowers are Mannering, the NZ national team Captain, Ryan Hoffman, the NSW vice-Captain, and Bodene Thompson who made the NZ Four Nations squad last year. So it's not like he's been stuck in reserve grade behind awful players. You don't get picked for Samoa in two consecutive years if you're a bad player.

I don't really see him in our injury free 1st choice 17:

For curiosity who would you drop out of my choice of 17 and replace with Jonesy.

Lomax
Swift
Turner
Percival
Makinson

Burns
Walsh

Walmsley
Roby
Amor
Greenwood
Wilkin
LMS

Mose
Vea
Richards
Sav

We would have to look at dropping one of these Greenwood, LMS, Vea or Sav in the forwards, Percival or Turner in the backs. For me he is a good squad player when injuries arise.

When you put it like that I'd struggle, not used to seeing our first choice 17

I'd probably drop Richards for him - Sav as our 4th prop, Jones as interchange for second row or loose. I have a lot of time for Jones because he's the sort of player you need in tight games - someone who doesn't miss too many tackles, doesn't make many errors, doesn't give many penalties away.

We could as you say use Sav and also LMS as 4th prop, but for next season I think we need another "all out" prop. Looking again at Peyroux, maybe the coaching staff have seen the utility value, we can cover centre, wing and the back row with one utility player (Peyroux) where at the moment we have got to use 2 players in Jones and Dawson. I think Dawson is contracted on a low salary up to 2016.

Agree about the prop, I notice Kopcaan is ooc this year and there appears to be no talk of him renewing with huddersfield (hardly surprising with their recruits so far) - I think he'd be both a very solid 4th prop and an attainable level for Richards and Haggerty to muscle in front of.

Lomax
Makinson Percival Turner Swift
Burns Walsh
Amor Roby Walmsley
Wilkin Vea
LMS

Savelio Greenwood Tasi Kopczak

SMD Peryoux Dawson Grace
Charnock Thompson Richards Haggerty

More than happy with that as a top 25!

It's worrying that we are actively looking for prop but they keep opting for other teams. I'm in no doubt we need another prop. Not just a back up prop but a prop that's got some quality.

I'm pretty worried by the form of Amor this year. He's getting dominated most weeks now and if you do add Lms to the prop, he's pretty similar getting dominated down the middle. The young 3 are pretty hot and miss as youd expect for Young props.

That leaves us with only Tasi and Walmskey that can make good hard meters when we pinned back in our own half. We are struggling at the moment to get out of our own half but luckily big Mose has really stood up and gives us really go go forward.

So Imo a prop is a must!

That may be because we've marginalised him somewhat of late. There was a point last year when he was playing (well) every week no matter what. I think someone (maybe Brown) said he was the first name on the sheet most weeks (Brown used to say a lot of things, mind).

In 2013, Jones made a whopping 18 clean breaks, only bettered by Johnny Lomax.

Think you're being very harsh on Amor, yes he's not hit the heights of last year, but he's certainly picked up in the last few weeks, and does the hard and rough stuff that gives Walmsley and Masoe a chance to shine. I think his biggest problem is the fact his interchanges this year have been downright bizarre!

I think we've got a prop in the bag (not that I know or anything) the fact that we were chasing quite a few props and then nothing implies it to me - I'm pinning my hopes on Kopczak who as I said looks more than obtainable at this point. As for the props we missed out on, a lot of them chose to stay in aus which there's no shame in, and the only other one is Mullany, who I since discovered lives round the corner from headingly so that's not a real surprise either.

I think Amor has improved through the season, but is still way off last year's form.

On props, how do we think Richards is going?

He's so young for a prop, its hard to be critical, but I do sometimes think he's not kicked on this year as well he might. At the moment I'd say he's looking at maturing into a quite good senior prop, which is not really what a club of Saints stature needs.
I have seen him get a couple of crunching tackles in, which is new.

Would a loan period at a lower club do him any good? Would a couple of months potentially dominating players more often add a couple of inches to his lifting dick and help develop his game?

I'm not bagging Amor at all. I lovd his work ethic and his heart. He's one the if first players on my my team sheet but anyway way you dress it up he's not as dominate as you'd like.

Why is it when someone on here gives a opinion on a player somebody jumps on the high horse and goes so OTT?

Amor is a good prop and I was calling for us to sign him a year before we did so don't get on my back saying im being harsh.

Apologies if you took offence, I just meant we weren't relying Walmsley and Masoe as much as you implied - no high horse here ... We can all agree he's a good - great player whose suffered from second season syndrome (not helped my some of his interchanges imo)

For his age I'd say he's ahead of the curve. Don't forget he's still growing and there's ever possibility he'll add one or two inches and several pounds to his frame before age 22.



Maybe. Richards' problem is there are some pretty good kids coming up behind him. Granted he has one or two years on them but the way Saints are talking N'Zoungou especially is on a very fast track. It's survival of the fittest. A great position for the club because prop is arguably the toughest position to fill in SL.

I'll preface this with saying I'm a big fan of Richards, I think he takes a lot of abuse from certain sections of the Saints public very unfairly and still has the potential to match any of our young forwards coming through.

What I like about Richards is that he's very intelligent and gets himself in the right place, whether it's dropping on a ball, or clearing up a mistake - hell, he was the only one who bothered to stop McGilvery going under the sticks vs huddersfield! And he's learnt to be very savvy in winning crucial moments in big games (penalty before Wilkins try at Magic, penalty before the first try vs wigan at LP, the ball steal vs Catalan away - which admittedly he was wrongly penalised for) - one of the criticisms I often hear levelled at him Is he's a penalty machine, which he appears to have worked hard on (currently sitting on 11 conceded for the season, same as Amor, Masoe and 1 less than Walmsley). He's havign a bit more impact this year compared to last, and I expect/ hope that that impact will continue to grow.

That being said, he's definitly suffered 2nd year syndrome like a few of our young players, and he's been left more exposed because there's no real competition for his place. He needs to continue his growing impact. There's every potential he's the next Paul Clough (no shame in that either) but I think can be a lot more - compare a few performances by Brad Singleton at leeds at his age for example, and you can see how well he's done, and how he can develop from here.

I wouldn't like to see him loaned out, all things being ideal, I'd like to see the club bring another prop in to take 10-15 games off him, and let him rise to the challenge of not letting that happen.

I've heard anyone give him abuse at all on here or at any of the games ?

He's a good prop for his age. His size helps him ad he's a big bulky lad for his age and still pleanty of time to grow yet. Typical Cumbrian lad.

At times he's struggled this year but mainly due to his age and learning. I don't think he wil go on to be a top class international prop but he's going to be s very good dependable plodder of a prop. A good starting prop Imo.

It's very easy to forget Richards only turned 20 in the last two weeks. He gets through a fair bit of work, but doesn't look like he's ever going to break a tackle. I think give it a year or two and he'll be good enough to start. He's probably only had a year or two in a full time training environment, just needs another pre-season or two IMO.

Amor could do with a bit more size, for comparison Richards and Savelio have 3kg and 6kg on him respectively, and Amor's lack of size shows against the bigger packs in the league. His footwork means he still copes okay but he ends up on his back a lot and isn't particularly dominant. With this in mind, he doesn't seem to be playing particularly long minutes, which you'd think is the way to get his best out of him. I suppose KC doesn't want Walmsley and Mose off the pitch for too long though.

Exactly my thoughts

Do we reckon we will bring anyone else in now or will Peyroux be the last signing for next season?

He'll be the last no doubt, but doesn't need to be.

Wellens -> Shannon McDonnell
Masoe -> Tasi
Jones -> Peyroux
Hohaia -> Haggerty

With Flanagan and any more that depart going into the holiday fund.

Sure there will be room for one more panic signing mid-season.

£70k is the average wage for a superleague player. It is not a massive amount. If we deem him an average Saints player then it is justifiable to request the average wage. Not unreasonable I think.

I believe there'll be 1 more signing. KC said a while ago there'll be 2 or 3 more signings this year on top of Tasi depending on Savelio, so 1 more - and very potentially a prop given the players we've been in for but not secured (Mullany, Shillington)

Walsh will see a big rise in cap size as Penrith won't be paying half any more, Jones won't of been more than a packet of skittles and half a hankey (like all juniors) and Savelio has been given a huge rise.

Edit: another consideration to make is I believe the new marquee allowance rules will be replacing the elite training squad allowance and long serving player allowance, which is an extra 100k the club will be using currently gone if we aren't taking up our marquee spot ... (Though I can't confirm this until I see the rulings for next year obviously)

Doubt we'll be in for anyone. Some very good players are moving to Super League and we're not mentioned for any of them. The latest is prop Keith Galloway signing for Leeds today.

Richards is a solid defensive player with a low error count, in saying that he did have a 3 game spell of dropping a lot of ball, but he seems to have overcome that. Being only 20 years of age he's still got quite a bit to learn especially in getting the ball away in heavy traffic, he reminds a little bit on how Andy Platt moved up to the front row, Richards probably needs some good experienced props around him to improve his skill set.

Take your filth back to your specialist website.