Turning a side around and heading in the right direction has just got a whole lot harder with with NRL salary cap increase on it's way and the weak £. I don't think a single quality signing has been announced from the NRL for next year, Ellis apart but he really is an exception. The day's of splashing the cash and overhauling a squad with decent overseas players appears to be over. If Brown is to turn the squad around, then he'll have to do so with St Helens youngsters and fellow SL recruits only.

As for Brown at Huddersfield. I thought in his first couple of years in charge he really got them to that next level, it's subsequently where he's struggled to take them another rung up the ladder that's tarnished his reputation somewhat. As others have said it was the constant repeating of the same mistakes over an over again without rectifying them that ultimately cost him dearly.

I think he'll turn it around for you guy's, but just have far can he take you remains to be seen. Granted you've got a higher quality of player, although the gulf isn't as large as some make out. I do wonder whether his downfall has been down to the fact that he's no longer up to date with the latest techniques in the NRL as he was when he first arrived, and it's perhaps his inability to come up with his own plans and ideas as his old one's have become ineffective, that have shown him up. If that were the case it makes the job that Tony Smith has done over here all these years all that more impressive.

If that story is true - and I'm always skeptical about such stories - what it tells me is:
(a) Nathan Brown (rightly) refused to do the players' dirty work for them.
(b) Your players are a nasty, arrogant bunch who deserve bringing down a peg or two.
(c) The story backs up Brown's claim about player power - if they are willing to gang up on the conditioner and think they know better then clearly they are prepared to refuse to play for their coach because they think they know better (which, after Sunday's showing, they clearly don't).
(d) Your conditioner is too sensitive.

You talk a lot of sense and I take on board many of your points but fortunately due to another benefactor we have pots of money and don't owe the bank even 1p which allows a better (well more expensive) support staff setup.
Also, bigger crowds and the prospects (see bookies odds and recent i.e. SL history) of winning things will attract better quality players, even with the same SC. At least that is the theory.
The crowd for the SF - how many did you take - 3,000?

Hmmm. It would seem Brown had no authority or influence with the players if the story is true.
No team will win anything if players decide tactics etc. I'm more than a little concerned.

Also, I wouldn't blame the players as it looks like Brown not only gave them the gun but loaded it, cocked it and aimed it for them. Who want to work for him as part of the support/coaching staff if thats the support he gives them?

What's that got to do with anything? Since when did we start this stupid notion of setting the benchmark as the NRL? Look at Jammer, the Burgess brothers, Widdop for God's sake (forgotten and unattended in Halifax, right on the Yorkshire clubs' doorsteps). They all look as good down under as they did here. We just need to stop looking over there and instead look closer to home. There will be some gems we are missing. Look at Chris Hill over at Warrington or Hardaker at Leeds. Both Championship players until very recently. I am extremely glad the salary cap has escalated in Australia and the pound is useless because we might stop this stupid obsession with NRL players then and instead give our home grown talent a chance.

But my personal hobby horse aside, I've had my doubts about the recruitment of Brown since the moment it was announced. However, as with other coaches before him, I will keep an open mind and give him a season before getting off the fence.

I don't beleive that story one bit. Brown is a strict coach and got told by a saints coach that some players wont know what's hit them when he arrives.

He is not that strict Pete when he allows player power to change his selection and tactics?
The only word for that is weak.

If he letting the player power take over at hudderfield got help him at saints

Conditioners work for the club, not the coach, don't they? They have to work with the coach, obviously, but I don't think they are accountable to him are they? I remember Simmons saying when he first arrived that our conditioner had asked him for his (Simmons) plan because Potter always wrote his own plan which the conditioner then executed. Simmons didn't do that; he considered the conditioner to be the 'expert' in that field and so gave him a free reign. It could have been simply Brown forcing the players to man up rather than hide behind him and whinge behind the conditioner's back. We will never know. We don't even know if the story is remotely true!

Either way, no doubt we will discover over time whether our players are happy bunnies under Brown or not.

It's only what I was told and that was by someone who'll be working with brown next year.

It's a sign of the times as I so described.


Well it is the best Rugby League competition in the world and could well be described as the best Rugby comp in the world. Are you disputing the NRL being the comp we'd aspire our own to be like. God knows what I wouldn't give to see mostly competitive games each and every week



A little OT. But I agree, I think we've got a whole load more players who could make it over there. I think it's all well and good giving homegrown it's chance but quality certainly has dipped recently with that practice. We as a nation continue to struggle to produce quality outside backs in any great number. I know by filling the gaps with Aussies doesn't help that fact. But if it's between watching a quality Aussie who knows his centre play, versus some plodding English backrow convert who's never going to make it in a months of Sunday's, I know which I'm going to favor. It's about finding the correct balance.

Or tactical. If he is in a power struggle with the players then he has few options. According to Pete, for instance, player power forced Simmons out as they didn't like the way he was coaching them. That's just a story, granted, but if true then that is no different. For some reason, players must be kept happy at all costs and if they gang up against the coach, the coach is up the creek without a paddle. All he can do is exactly what Brown did: he played them. They wanted change? Ok, they can have it, just before a knock out game, knowing what the outcome would be for them (because he knows the limitations of his players, perhaps unlike his players) and he's gone anyway. I think that was a smart move if his players have indeed been playing power games.

Didn't Nathan Brown give Trent barrat a slap on the pitch because he didn't do as he told? That is being over strict.

Is it bad coaching to listen to your players every now and then? Maybe he listened and said lets give it a go.

If hudds won on Sunday and Brown made the same comments, would people then be saying, it's good a coach listens to his players.

Was DA a bad coach when the players told him they wanted to us certain millward plays in attack and he agreed?

I've never once said player power got super Royce the sack, i did say they didn't agree with his crazy tactics and certain other stuff.

I watch the NRL every week on Premier. I don't want us to be like that, no. If I wanted to watch wrestlemania then I would! Only those games that have a faster PTB are good in the NRL. Many games are like watching paint dry they are that slow and not exactly skilfull it has to be said. Some of them are far from competitive too. There have been plenty of lopsided scores this season, some into the 40 points on one side.


That's a different argument though. We can have competitive games without them being played Aussie style. We need to raise the standard in the lower clubs within our own game according to our style. We don't need to keep trying to emulate the Australians.


You answer the problem yourself really. Firstly, we don't know how many quality outside backs our game produces because before any young guns can get to grips with professional rugby we drop them for antipodeans or keep hold of ageing second raters way too long or play players out of position. That's all down to clubs and coaches, not the talent available. I do hope we are forced to look to these shores for our talent. We might notice it then because I'm sure we haven't actually bothered for some time.

You haven't used the words 'player' and 'power' together like that no but you have certainly said they were unhappy with his tactics and 'certain other stuff'. Same difference given that he got the boot.

That was a coach preared to learn things. It was the opposite with mr brown methinks.

Anyway I'm not sure the players wern't right. Lightweight pack, one HB? Gawd help us

Sounds familiar ...

He should fit in at saints then, we've played 4 years with one centre, we have two ex fullbacks as our halfbacks, we've got a backrow row as our main starting prop.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=522444&tsmp=1342458047 This thread appeared on the Hudds board when the 'Brown to Saints' rumours first broke. Many, many positive comments about Brown and how he brought Hudds fom nothing to become a genuine force. None of the 'tinkerman', 'lightweight pack' or 'no plan b' criticisms. As the deal was confirmed, the Hudds fans (and likely the players) have become aggrieved that Brown has jumped ship for a SL rival rather than the NRL team he often spoke about. The slump begins and suddenly Brown is a mediocre coach who can't handle the players, plays fullbacks at prop and makes conditioners cry. I'd prefer to judge him based on where Hudds were when he took up the reigns and where he took them to before announcing his dream ( ) move to Saints and the wheels fell off. How fickle fans can be.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=522444&tsmp=1342458047 This thread appeared on the Hudds board when the 'Brown to Saints' rumours first broke. Many, many positive comments about Brown and how he brought Hudds fom nothing to become a genuine force. None of the 'tinkerman', 'lightweight pack' or 'no plan b' criticisms. As the deal was confirmed, the Hudds fans (and likely the players) have become aggrieved that Brown has jumped ship for a SL rival rather than the NRL team he often spoke about. The slump begins and suddenly Brown is a mediocre coach who can't handle the players, plays fullbacks at prop and makes conditioners cry. I'd prefer to judge him based on where Hudds were when he took up the reigns and where he took them to before announcing his dream ( ) move to Saints and the wheels fell off. How fickle fans can be.

Not quite. They won a couple following the announcement, and they had slumps last season and the season before as well, even when Brown wasn't changing his mind about going to Australia (ie last season). Nothing to do with his decision to go to Saints IMO, regardless of anything else.

If Brown is a strong coach, can see him shifting Lance to No 9 and Roby at 13 straight away.

That's how I see it and totally agree.

He's the scapegoat.

Maybe it was nothing to do with his decision to join Saints in terms of the slump, but that decision certainly seems to be the catalyst in the mass memory wiping of a number of Hudds fans.