Is this a serious post? So the side that has comprehensively beaten you on BOTH occassions and outperformed you player for player would have 8 players to the beaten sides 9? Or even 7 to 10?!?! Your pack has been completely dominated on BOTH occassions. Your backs have looked ponderous and your halves clueless. Mate...you've lost the plot! Can I just ask what exactly you're basing these choices on? Stats? Performance from either match? Or shall we just put it down to wishful thinking?

But surely the reason Wigan play so well to those structures is because that particular set of players is capable of doing so? In other words, it isn't the structures themselves which are the winning factor but rather that those structures suit the players available. Saints will need different structures due to the players we have. The problem is not that we don't have Wigan's structures, or indeed anyone else's structures, but that we have no structures at all.

Or is that what you were saying?

This was the thing that annoyed me the most today, look at Leulaui (who isn't even a Wiganer), Hock, O Loughlin and more and how they throw everything into the tackle making good contact helping their team control the ruck. We look at Roby as out best tackler because no-one else even comes close. We may get 3 men in the tackle but on more than one occasion today Wigan were able to wriggle free and possibly offload or somehow over raw his tackler.

I love Wellens for what he has done but I'm not starting to wonder whether to play Makinson at FB for example the break Wello made today past Hughes. If that had been TMak it would have been see you later fellas I'm under the black dots but it wasn't and this combined with Hohaia and his dallying with the ball really made things tough today. I think Wheeler could have got into the game more today too, he was content sitting out on the wing dropping anything that came near him. Get yourself in the game Gary, you have the ability to change it! Lomax didn't dictate the team right partially because he didn't even know if he was getting the ball from Hohaia but also because he is a confidence player and that was where he slipped up today. The passes that hit the floor from dummy half in the early stage of the 1st half were embarrassing.

Where to start on the pack! Perry went backwards again, Robes barely had scraps to play off, Flannery was a passenger and Sia was too interested in Gaz Ock's eye colour. LMS had impact and heart, Clough did the hard yards that Perry can only dream about making. Magennis was cumbersome (i think he is still trying to catch old man Finch now) and Wilkin was very meh. Laffranchi gave it a good fist and i don't really have any faults with him, arguably the best of the lot we have brought in recently. We miss TP big time, undoubtedly. The pack didnt come to the party today whereas Wigan turned up with presents and the cake AND they were playing one guy light too.

Frustrated, disappointed but just left wondering where the desire in this team is going to come from.

Our attack has no structures thats for certain! Keeping wigan to so few points shows the defence is ok, but the attack is poor

Yeah, that's what I was attempting to say. If other teams had structures that were as good as Wigans but suited to their players then some teams would be an awful lot better. If that makes any sense at all?

Ah, ok. I see where you're coming from. However to put it [upurely[/u down to structures is not giving credit where it's due. This is a very good Wigan team. The best I've seen in quite a while. Hence the 2 trophies in as many seasons and currently standing top of the league and one game away from Wembley again. We won at a canter today without even playing to our ability and, as the saying goes, that's always the sign of a good team. Saints time will come again. Of that I have no doubt. But as it stands, your current team couldn't play the gameplan that this Wigan side does. However, as a hypothetical I agree with what you're saying. Maybe you could have put it better though and not been so quick to dismiss what is clearly an important part of the success; i.e. the ability to play to the structures in the first place.

I'm not saying Wigan are a bad team playing with good structures, you're a good team playing with good structures. If you had structures at the level similar to ours you'd probably be around still be in the top 3 on ability alone but it's your structures that set you apart.

Exactly.

If this is a serious post then you want to think about going to watch a different sport cos you know naff all about rugby league

I don't think there is any discussion really: this is a very good organised Wigan team.

In terms of the pointless hypothetical argument of who would get into the wigan team: I'd say that only TP, Roby and Soliola (outside chance of Laffranchi who has been a great buy) would get in on current form. I don't think anybody else would get in to be honest.

I'm still trying to get over the fact that one Wigan fan thinks Roby is one-dimensional!

Prescott is three years older and has 40 odd more appearances than Mossop, I'd expect him to be doing better than Mossop had they been of comparable ability. Prescott should be coming into his prime about now, he's not much better than he was when he first broke into your team.

I'd take Mossop, I agree with that, but not Prescott.

not necessarily an excuse but something to consider, i believe prescott was doing a law degree along side playing which he finished at the end of the 2010 season and i personally believe he has become a much more mature player since, but well see what he does this year.

I think what he's saying, is that the top three of four teams (I am counting us in this due to last years finishing position

) players are of a similar standard. Squads are better in some areas than others, but on the day each team can beat the other. However, Wigan's current set up (not much changed from Maguire's in reality, but sometimes the best management is not to change things that are working) gives you that edge. Players are comfortable in their positions and what they are expected to do, plays have been worked on and everyone knows what they are doing. We just look clueless at times.

Fair enough, but I've not seen much in his game to make me think that there's potential there for him to get much better than he is.

Some amazing bury your head in the sand posts on here. The facts of the matter are James Roby is the best hooker in superleague but he makes your side one dimensional. He isn't one dimensional but the Saints side reliance on him is beyond belief! Wigan are laughing their paps off at the minute knowing if they close him down the game is won.

As for my original post about who'd get in a combined team if I had to name them like I say it's a Wigan 1-7 and in the pack Roby would get a start and Soliola and TP may scrape bench spots but that is literally it.

Things need to change starting with having a player who's miles better then Hohiha in Gaskell starting at 6! If you guys can't use him I'm sure we'd find use for him.

I'm confused! After what you have said above, are you now admitting our 4th choice halfback would get in your squad.

Well I suppose that is a more logical post than what some have come out with today.

I understand your point, but when a side has been coached into playing to plan A (the ruck area) with no plan B then it will always be their 'comfort zone'. Lesser teams have real problems round the ruck, so when that is exposed we come out of our shell and play some decent rugby. When we come up against quality teams (like Wigan) and we don't find it as easy in that area we panic and sit in that 'comfort zone' as that's all this set of players know. We aren't coached in a way to express ourselves and test the edges, so when plan A fails....we continue on with it.

Rush isn't a full time head coach, so he is not expected to coach us out of this habit, but when Brown comes in we should see a real difference I reckon. I think one of Roby's strengths is his clever and instinctive distribution (something that is rarely picked up on) and that is an area that can be looked at IMO when Brown gets here; he is far from a one trick pony.

The Saints TEAM as a whole is one-dimension; I wouldn't shift all the blame onto James Roby,

To make it simple for you I'll state it [iagain[/i - Our players are underperforming because they have been poorly coached for a long time and our tactics are predictable and one-dimensional. Our players are of a generally higher natural standard and of a greater level of talent than yours. Stick a quality coach in charge of our current squad for a few months and things would be rather different. If roles had been reversed and you'd had Royce instead of Maggie the last couple of years you'd have done well to make top 4 and wouldn't have had a sniff of any trophies. Warrington (by some distance) and Saints/Leeds (rather more marginally) have better squads than you do at the moment, but none of them have done as good a job of sow's ear maximisation as you have the last couple of years. Depressingly.

He's correctly making the point that Gaskell should be our 1st choice at 6!! Why the coaching team at Saints can't see what everyone else can is beyond me.

hahahahahaha and you called me biased hahahahaha!!!!

wheeler has about the same ability as goulding but goulding is playing miles better.
charnley has been the best winger this season so for you to say meli just shows how much of an idiot your being.
ok lomax's future looks good but he isn't better than a harry sunderland and the only GOOD world cup winning half back playing in superleague tommy.
'la frank' get real mossop is better by the biggest country mile you can find, and its saying something as he has been your best forward all season.
roby allways looks really good against decent teams and allways get bummed up but nobody mentions how he allways plays rubbish against us because he cant find the space and time to scoot.
Tp well this is where we show are depth because take your pick lima and prescott are as good as him and this season both have been better plus he isn't a prop!
not a wigan fan in the world would swap are backrowers showing the last couple of season why hansen is qaulity the best work horse in the league and is solid now

it does actaully and well done for admitting your not far superior in every way. And i am not trying to writte your team off you do have a very talented backline and when coached right will play some fantastic rugby but player for player RIGHT NOW you aren't as good as wigan and i would argue the same case for most other teams. its hardly a bad thing really its not as if wigan are a terrible team.

I think that although Mike Rush has done a great job with junior development over the years, i don't think he has the nads to drop highly paid overseas players, hope that i am wrong and Gaskell is back in soon.

Where was Saint's kicking game yesterday? Power play after power play.

Do you actually believe the that you post on this forum? Being well coached is one thing, having the players to execute it is another.

we are playing no better now than when Simmons was in charge.Totally clueless in attack.That brief spell after Simmons was sacked lulled us into thinking that Rush could do a decent job-how wrong we were.