To be honest, I didn't realise that Wilkin was carry the can for this season until this thread popped up.

So far we have had Flannery as a scapegoat, I'll hold my hands up I was first in on that one, but that was cause Dixon had a storming first couple of games and Flannery had some glaring errors. Could not see why he was picked ahead of Dixon. But Flannery has settled down a bit now.

Then we had Foster
Perry
Lance kinda got it from some not from others
Meli - well for me his -ve just outweights the +ve
LMS
Perry - well he did have a few weeks out
Foster again
Now Wilkin, I'll be honest did not see the Bradford game, so maybe he had a howler but can't really say he has been poor the rest of the year.

I was hoping he would be a leader on the pitch, but you can't really direct the play from 2nd row. So maybe if he drops to loose he'll be able to help stear the team better. Although I suspect Lance may be dropped into the halfs to do this. But then that leaves us with 2 similar halves. It can be done, with Wilkin kicking from loose, Leeds have done this for years, but I suspect its a case of our spine being a bit in flux. No one really certain who should play where from the talent we have.

6.7.13.9 These are the key areas for controlling the team, with 1. also contributing but having more of a free role.

This year we have had several 13's not in the traditional ball playing role.
9 has been a little disrupted in the last few weeks.
6 and 7 have not really clicked in the last few weeks either.

We have options but fitting them all together in a well working unit, where we know our go to men are is more the issue than any one scape goat. IMHO.

Jon Wilkin has not been the problem. His field kicking is not the best, but there is not a lot wrong with his game or commitment.

What?????? Are you Tony Blair?

You'd make a good politician.

im from the north....does that mean we like him or not?

I'm not an avid follower of the board so I wasn't fully aware of your thoughts over the last 6 years. Now I am, it's safe to say we're arguing the toss over 7 games in which we've seen slightly different things. We're entitled to opinions and whilst I don't agree with you, we're going to start circulating each other if we continue.

I am surprised that SaintsFan, after admonishing me for failing to address their point has failed to answer my point regarding Wilkins statistical superiority in ALL worthwhile back row contributions so far this season to Sean O Loughlin who is generally held up in such a good light.

Or what Lance Hohaia's tackling stats have to do with Jon Wilkin.

Because I was talking about his leadership, not whether he was any good as a back rower, although he certainly hasn't been playing to the levels of last year.

If I wanted to portray Wilkin as the one and only scapegoat for this season's mess I would have probably posted a thread title such as, [i"Wilkin: the one and only scapegoat for this season's mess".[/i

Of course, there are countless other under-performing players. But many of them are young, inexperienced, physically immature (Gaskell, Foster , Makinson etc.), or new to the team (Hohaia, Laffranchi), or so modest of ability there's is no earth-shaking difference between a good and a bad performance (Meli, Gardner and possibly Flannery). In other words - they have one (or more) mitigating factors.

Wilkin is a good player (or at least should be). He's in his prime. He lacks neither maturity nor experience. He's tactically astute etc. Which means he has far fewer excuses. Hence my singling him out for specific criticism.

This.

Since Wilkin wants the benefits of being a senior player, not to mention an international, then he must also take the responsibilities. That's part of being a team. IMO neither he nor one or two other senior players have been doing this and that is largely the reason why we slid in confidence once we lost Robes to injury.

Last season almost every time one of our newbies referred to on-field/performance guidance it was either Jammer or Pryce they mentioned. Those have both gone. I don't think anyone has stepped in to take their place but the inexperienced guys are still to play a full season in the first team (Foster excepted) and therefore still need the same support and guidance they needed last year.

Not sure how much " on field guidance" pryce gave last year, he was barely on the field himself.

I hope Wilkin's shorts come with a pocket so that he can store some bog roll to wipe all the young players s for the rest of the season.

Being a team is about supporting your mates. When those mates are untested in battle then it is up to those who are tested to watch their backs otherwise they don't learn and they put the rest of their mates at risk.

I totally agree that being a team is about helping your mates and not wanting to let your mates down.

I think that's what maguire brought to Wigan last year and one of Nathan browns main thing is getting players to play for each other.

I coach a team and I'm massive on working for your mates.

Indeed, and the senior players are aware that they let the inexperienced members of the team down. Listen to Wello on the latest Saints podcast, for example, or read his interview in the St Helens Star.

I won't bother listening to wello on the pod cast after seeing his interview on sky about Royce being sacked.

In his interview he came across all sad that Royce had gone

he's a good actor

No, of course you won't. It wouldn't be convenient for your argument.


He was one of the players who went to visit Royce on Sunday evening, to thank him for making him captain of his home town club. I very much doubt he was acting.

And remember, two players came to Saints in part because Royce was in charge here. Laffranchi is one of them, he's on the podcast too, and he says he is upset because of his relationship with Royce.

He guided himself to a seat in the stand not to mention a fat contract with Catalans

According to a couple of the inexperienced lads he (and Jammer) gave a lot of advice.

Your correct, wello dud thank him for making him captain of his home town club and rightly so he should thank him as its a great honour for any local lad to captain his town but I feel you don't know all the ins and outs of the last week and half running up to Royce being sacked.

And of course you do.

Not too many posts back it was all about the performance and style of rugby. Now there is something going on behind the scenes that I don't know about but you do? C'mon Pete. Even for you that's a bit obvious!

Yes I do know what went on behind the scenes over the last week and half and to be honest I'm glad it went on or we'd still have thus clueless clown coaching the team.

To say that KC could lose his god like status at saints by helping out mike rush is just laughable and it's nothing like murphy being remembered as a bad coach and not great player.

Alex was the fulltime coach, KC has been asked to assist rush as we are in massive trouble. I'd say KC might have lost his god like status if he'd refused to help the club he's loved since he was born.

Your just trying to deflect future Blame on KC and rush if we lose as you was a Royce Simmons fan because you liked his first interview.


How you can be so blind to fact that Royce was the worst coaching appomitnent this club have made for the past 20 years is unreal. You called potter a cardboard cut out but all I've seen for past year and half is a clueless man stood in the back ground of KP and looking very very confused.

Well, you know what, so do I. I know someone who knows the players well. So there.


You think KC is immune to the fickleness of fans? You are either very niaive or very stupid.




Now you're being childish again. I'm concerned for KC actually. I rather think Mr Big has heaped a whole load of pressure on to him that could ruin his reputation if it all goes wrong. And it could all go very wrong.


Because I don't think he was the worst coaching appointment and it is in no way a fact. It's not a question of being blind; it's a question of disagreeing with your opinion. Mr Big sacked Millward. Just because he sacks coaches doesn't mean the coaches are poor. They just don't fit with what he wants for the club. After all, he sacked Purtill too and Purtill was around under Potter.

I don't know anyone who knows the players, I just know them personally



Providing you "buddy" does know what went on then you'll see why I'm not going to listen to the wello podcast.

No way will KC lose any respect with the fans for what he's done for us on the pitch, no way at all!

McManus sacked millward for off the fieid reasons and not for on the fieid reasons. In fact when and who was the last coach to be sacked for poor results?

You reckon? Hold that thought if things go wrong!


Does anyone actually know the real reason for Millward being sacked? Personally my theory is that McManus didn't like him. That would be all that was necessary for McManus to sack someone.

Was Eric Hughes sacked for results? I can't remember.

I think Ian millward thought he'd become bigger than the club and was untouchable with the things he was doing. Players was also starting to get embarrassed by some of the field stuff.

I think it was Eric Hughes that was last coach sacked for results. Hughes has tough job at the time and is nice fella.