ANd now a Hebrew biblical reference. It's like being at Oxford on 'ere.

I would suggest that a rich NRL will mean that the idea of swapping to union for the reward of England money will be less inticing.
For every Chris Aston there is a Chev Walker, a Karl Pryce and a Lee Smith. RU isn't a cake walk any more.

Personally, I think we'll see Eastmond rip it up at club level for Bath, but struggle to impact internationally, due to his size not being what the Union selectors are after. If he doesn't, then he wont be any better off than he would of if he'd have been playing for Saints, except he's wasted a year of his career when he could have been developing, he's also written off whatever chances he had of building towards a golden goose contract with a new cashed up NRL, playing a game that he 100% know he can succeed at.

That's how a rich NRL will benifit SL in its resisting Union.

You also forget the influence of the media. Superleague is a big draw for Sky veiwers, i reckon (if anyone has relevant stats, I'd liek to see them). They won't want a prime product of theirs suffering, just so Rugby Union can waste money on more failed poaching experiments or because the Aussie have more cash.

Rugby League is a great game and I'll watch it until the cows come home, even if a few players are poached.

But Kyle and Joel both know that they will earn so much more in the next three years than they could have in RL. Then if it doesn't work out for them they will still be in their mid twenties and able to come back to RL and still get good money if that is their desire.

Their overall earnings in say an eight year period will be significantly more if they go the RL to RU and then back to RL route.

The figures being banded about are enormous (£250K - £400K) pa is what has been reported.

Good luck to them, I wish they had both stayed in RL but with those sort of salaries available (and the much higher profile International Game) can you really blame them?

The Salary cap in Rugby union is £4million, which is higher than I expected. A rugby union club needs to maintain a squad of around 36 players compared to 26 in league. Our salary cap is £1.65 (?)
So, their average allocation per player is £111,000 per annum, compared to League's rather dissapointing £63,000 a year. That is disturbing.

However, [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/english/7829489.stmthis article[/url suggests a lot of union clubs aren't spending it and, when paired with articles like [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/apr/15/sale-reebok-stadiumthis[/url, it doesn't suggest the english union clubs are exactly flush enough to be throwing big money about.

Do we know the yearly figures that the Aviva Premiership and Engage Superleague receive from their Sky contract?

Stop presenting alternative viewpoints to hysteria. That kind of intellect isn't acceptable on apocalyptic RL message boards, you should know that. For heaven's sake don't post it on RedVee or it'll melt.

Dont like to make a habit of agreeing with pie-eaters but you got it spot on here...both Eastmond and Tomkins can go to RU, earn in 3 years what it would take them at least double that time to earn in RL, and if it doesnt work out can come back to RL and still be young enough to continue at to level for 8-10 seasons after

The cash in RU cannot be matched by RL and I fear if the RFL dont act soon we could lose a lot more of our young stars to the dark side

The English Rugby Union youth development is still flawed with many of the old pre professional barriers - either that or boarding schools produce the best rugby union players. A look down their youth International Teams reflect little change from 20 years ago with the exceptions of George Ford and Owen Farrell, who have made an impact in that game because of their natural rugby skills and maturity in terms of rugby craft. Chris Ashton just backs up - he times his run and has the in built instinct to anticipate where to be when / if a break is made - something 10 year olds are expected to do at Thatto Heath, Pilkington Recs, St Judes or St Pats. Unions biggest issue is that Rugby League exists. They cant / wont improve that terrible game out of fear it may be perceived as becoming "like league" but it wont stop the fools wanting a back line that includes Ford, Farrell, Tomkins, Tomkins and Ashton - Tuilagi and Foden might get a look in. The sad thing is not so much the loss of good players to Union, it is the missed opportunity to see these guys at their best on a stage where they will get the ball more than once or twice a game and the space to show what they can do - which is precisely what used to happen when the Union lads came to league.

I dont see the club earnings as being a huge draw for players, but the potential earnings of an England player are astronomical. I would imagine that Ashton's earnings at Northampton are now dwarfed by his other income streams from the international game, and the endorsements that can be had. RL will never be able to compete with this, and to even try to would be suicidal for the game.

I do like reading these panic monkey threads.

This year we have lost two players to Union. Count them 2. Thats about 0.5%of our SL player roster.

People love to take anecdotal evidence nowa days and extrapolate that to create some pattern to fit their own strange paranoia.

Its a hit that both clubs and the league are well able to take. We cast aside a bigger percentage of our players each year to lower leagues.

Injury over the courseof a season has a greater impact.

People love to buy into hype too. Eastmond had great potential but lets face it has not been tested in RL. If he does well fair play to him but its a gap easily fixed.

Tomkins again is no great loss to Wigan even his more talented younger brother is not irreplaceable.

In the end money is the key. We could throw off the cap but that would lead to quick wage inflation for no good reason other than there being more money. Not more talent.

We need financially stronger clubs profitable club. This will lead to better wages for all players rather than throwing huge money to keep one or two players whilst bankrupting the clubs.

If we had a billion dollar tv contract a higher cap would work. But we dont the cap has to reflact the capacity of the clubs to bear the burden. Clubs alone cannot be trusted to act finacially soundly as chairmen will bust finances on the hope of on field success. With some faint faith that the money will follow.

Give me a sound business plan with a long term growth of league over some short term monkey panic because one or two employees have got a better paid job.

Jes!

Well said, that.

I agree with the other points in your post too.

Way too much flapping over nothing.

They are good points but it's also the NRL we are losing players to. It's only going to get worse with the new salary cap comes in.

The big problem is the nrl and union are taking our best young players which obviously makes for worse league.

IMO it's the nrl which will take our best players.

I agree Pete and I would rather this happen than go to the dark side,the lesser of two evils so to speak.

In my opinion the best player tag is somewhat silly. Every year the best players change. Taking out the top ten players does not ruduce the quality of the league unless those ten players are the only decent ones and we have no coaches who can coach replacements to be just as good.

No other business or sport in the world panics as much over a loss of a few employees as the british RL fan.

We've lost two very good players this year that are home grown. One to union and one to the nrl. Wigan are looking to be losing Joel tomkins which is another home grown player.

It's not a serious problem at the moment but it's got all the signs of becoming a very big problem.

Something needs to be put in place to prevent thus but I ain't got clue what and how the RFL can stop it.

Like I said, I think the nrl is the biggest threat.

There was also the loss of Ian Thornley an 18 year old 6ft 2", 15 stone centre last year to Sale, and the obvious talent that is Owen Farrell and George Ford.

Farrell and Ford were children when their parents went over to Union. You can't count them as losses. If their parents had gone to play skittles in Afghanistan, they would probably be doing that now too.

Thornley is Wigan's fault. Why didn't he have a contract? Because they have so many e overseas players. Why didn't he play first team rugby for Wigan? Because they have too many e overseas players.

Just continue to grow our sport. It's as simple as that. We can't compete with the NRL or the cash that the RFU has but we can compete on product and certainly on the entertainment front.

Don't be so harsh, they have the best centre in Super League in George Carmont.

Having read all this thread (I did have to pop a valium and a couple prozac) I can say you are all barmy.

I really don't know how to put this so I will try a little experiment. List the players between academy and say 23 in the team. We'll use Saints and exclude Kyle:

Wheeler
Foster
Dixon
Armstrong
Ashe
Makinson
ermm.. and Gaskell

Off the top of my head. How many do you think will be snapped up by union (ever)?

Foster can kick from the tee but that's about it. They are made to play league and no union club is gonna poach any of those. And even if they desperatly needed someone they will take maybe one and you have the cover for that.

Also, as people have said, the number of failures in union is massive compared to success. The chances are that Tomkins and EAstmond will make it union and Tomkins will maybe get into the england team (Kyle is too small and not a good enough kicker) but if the RFU go on a mad scramble, they will come up short... again. We will get them back eventually and, as people have said, they will be maximum 25 whenthey return; still a chance of good players.

What I am saying is that Union may take a player a year (1 so far this year) but this does not spell the end of rugby league.

He had a contract just like Eastmond, but chose not to sign another one , like Eastmond, because he had a far better offer from RU, just like Eastmond.
HTH

OK, but how many club england spots are available?
It would be a rare event indeed if they wanted a league player to play in the forwards.
I would suggest they won't be targeting players to fill the scrum half or [ifly half[/i roles as they'll be considered too specialist for a switch over.
That leaves wingers, centres and full backs available to league players. A maximum of 5 starting players plus squad back up. Call it 10 players max and that's assuminig none of the union players are up to scratch.

Very few players will have the impact that Ashton has has on the international game, but that won't stop that dream and promise of vast riches being used to tempt players like eastmond. I would suggest that of those five positions you suggest, one or two at most will be filled by ex league players. The scramble to be one of them could be between 20 current league players