He got under Wilkin's skin because of what he did to a few 19 and 20 year old lads. Wow, what a man Bailey is. He'd hide behind a player's shorts rather than face up to real men. Boy do I hope the Aussies and Kiwis give it to him! I'll be cheering them on if they do.

It's just good to see RL in the national press. Look at the thousands of column inches and hours air time given to football every day - nothing stories and windbag pundits. Will Jock McManager pick player A in a slightly different position? There's a rumour that Julio Geordio wants a transfer because he is homesick, blah, blah, blah.

In Wilkin's defence it seems from the story that he applauded the rest of the Leeds outfit so the 'sour grapes' accusation is pretty unfounded.

Hear hear , he's a talentless thug..can't stand him, i really hope he gets well and truly tw****d by the Aussies

Hmmm. Bailey will be lapping this up. Wilkin should know better and, as has been said, settle his scores on the pitch.
Far more effective.

Don't know how true it is but i heard that James Roby played the GF with a serious cheekbone injury(fracture?), obviously this was not publicised by the club prior to the game, but I'm surprised no one has said anything since

Wilkin should feel no pressure to hold back from saying whatever he likes. The kid is one of the most articulate people in SL and very often brings up something worth listening to. Compare what Wilkin says to the usual assortment of Neanderthal grunts and farts emanating from players who throughout their lives have never so much as looked at the cover of a book, much less opened such.

One of the problems with Rugby League is it has a mile-wide anti-intellectual streak running straight through it. If you stand before a microphone and spew forth thirty seconds of unintelligible gibberish fans will applaud endlessly. But dare to embark on expressive and thoughtful discussion and the click-click-click of shells being loaded into the shotgun breeches of a legion of gap-toothed rednecks becomes deafening.

As stated, Wilkin shouldn't feel obliged to censor himself - [iprovided he is willing to stand or fall by what he says. [/i If he says something dumb then his dumbness will be laid bare to everyone. I certainly don't subscribe to this bonkers notion of "media awareness". One of the many problems we have in our game (not to mention sport in general) is players are now terrified of saying anything lest they be pilloried by the media. It has led us to where we are now - a sport which should promote endless discussion by the players but doesn't (beyond the usual dog-eared maxims which have been used so often they've lost all impact).

It wasn't always thus. Many older fans will recall Alex Murphy's "Jumping off Runcorn Bridge if they win the Cup" statement (which was harmless enough and did no damage other than to Murphy's ego, which was more than big enough to take it anyhow). That was a talking point. It still is today. And the reason it still is today is because players and coaches, for the past twenty or thirty years, have been terrified of saying anything remotely controversial.

As for "sour grapes". For the most part I think this is a meaningless abstraction trumped up by winners to render any criticism of their actions totally harmless. It's remarkably effective because a) it appeals to the pettiest of emotions and b) taps into notions of tribalism, which are enormously powerful and by definition difficult to argue against. In many ways it is similar to labelling critics of American foreign policy "unpatriotic" or anyone who chooses not to believe everything government tells him a "conspiracy nut".

People want their triumph to be absolute and heaven help anyone who muddies the water. Which is why the "sour grapes" retort is eternally popular. It gives winners a free pass to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" to any uncomfortable triumph-lessening realities being imposed upon them and then at the end claim the whole thing was nothing more than a jealousy-fuelled rant. As I said, it's remarkably effective. But it’s a lazy, weak argument and should be recognised as such at every available opportunity.

The worth of a player’s words should not be contingent upon whether he is a winner or a loser. So, when Wilkin says Bailey is an embarrassment because of x, y & z – does he have a point? (And before anyone chirps up with the usual – even if Wilkin were the next Terry Newton it wouldn’t invalidate his claim in any way). Given Bailey’s conduct since his arrival in the game I’d say he has.

Without criticism there can be no improvement. Which is why we need perceptive, well-spoken rugby players, coaches etc. to speak their mind at every opportunity. If it’s bull$hit it will be called as such without any need for ridiculous “sour grapes”, “bad loser” accusations.

Roby was our top tackler (again) with 45 followed by Wilkin at 31 and followed next by........(shock) Scott Moore with 29!!
Strange how all three are getting slagged off on this forum.



What was jammer (26) and TP (19) doing? A couple of games too many for them methinks.

According to opta wilkin gave away no pens.
Wilkin was our no 2 top tackler after robes though.

Mugwump, I agree with all your points.

Fans of other teams should be grateful that Wilkin is unafraid to speak out. Had he not been, but instead had he allowed the imminent backwash of peurile chatter to silence him, many more players this season could have experienced chicken wing tackles at the hands of Lima and been injured as a result.

It takes guts to stand against the tide, especially the tide of tribalism, but I am glad he did it and that he has done it again this time has highlighted an important issue. Bailey was unprofessional in his attitude towards our young players and he was incredibly childish (but he is). I suspect his coach would not have been happy at his behaviour given that he hauled him off straight after the niggle which happened towards the end of the match.

Sour grapes cannot be levelled at Jon Wilkin because he was very clear in crediting all the other Leeds players as professionals and also with their deserved victory. However, most fans - and media pundits by the look of it (not to mention McBanana, if his media response is anything to go by) - will ignore that part of what he said and instead prefer to indulge in a childish session of mockery about 'sour grapes'.

Unfortunately Wilkin has developed a bit of a track record when it comes to whinging to the Press. Coincidentally usually after loosing a match! This post from the Southstander Board illustrates his past history. Quote ="Leeds_Rhydon"This must surely be a contender for best post-Grand Final loss whinge. Lets look at the nominees: Mr Jon Wilkin, 2008, for "Leeds were whooping after they tackled us and there was a camera in the dressing room! Sniffle!" - news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 653071.stm Mr Jon Wilkin, 2009, for "The game is too slow, and why did they water the pitch? Waah!" - news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 301130.stm And of course, Mr Jon Wilkin, 2011, for "Ryan Bailey was dancing and singing, boohoo!" 2008 still wins it for me.'" The kid who stands in the school yard complaining "It's not fair" may well have a case, as perhaps does Wilkin, but the general reaction will be in response to the constant whinging, and not to what caused it. Sour grapes...a bad looser....a tad gormless? Mugwump may wax lyrical on the unfairness of tarring Wilkin with these brushes, whilst the pantomime villian of the piece steps up to collect yet another GF ring, but in the Great Scheme of Things, does it really matter?

Unfortunately Wilkin has developed a bit of a track record when it comes to whinging to the Press. Coincidentally usually after loosing a match! This post from the Southstander Board illustrates his past history. Quote ="Leeds_Rhydon"This must surely be a contender for best post-Grand Final loss whinge. Lets look at the nominees: Mr Jon Wilkin, 2008, for "Leeds were whooping after they tackled us and there was a camera in the dressing room! Sniffle!" - news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 653071.stm Mr Jon Wilkin, 2009, for "The game is too slow, and why did they water the pitch? Waah!" - news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 301130.stm And of course, Mr Jon Wilkin, 2011, for "Ryan Bailey was dancing and singing, boohoo!" 2008 still wins it for me.'" The kid who stands in the school yard complaining "It's not fair" may well have a case, as perhaps does Wilkin, but the general reaction will be in response to the constant whinging, and not to what caused it. Sour grapes...a bad looser....a tad gormless? Mugwump may wax lyrical on the unfairness of tarring Wilkin with these brushes, whilst the pantomime villian of the piece steps up to collect yet another GF ring, but in the Great Scheme of Things, does it really matter?

This is complete nonsense. Firstly, the comment was made soon after the match. Find me a PROFESSIONAL in any sport who can accept defeat so quickly and I'll show you an amateur. In any case you have no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that Wilkin's comment was born out of an "inability to accept defeat". From what I've read of Jon Wilkin he picks and chooses his words very carefully and speaks with a great deal of honesty. Why change suddenly after years? It's not like losing to Leeds (and Ryan Bailey) is something novel.

I have heard this rummor but no official complaints, no one has actually got any evidence this occurred at least when I have asked seems to me just to be a rummor.

Would it surprise you if true? ....

You might as well say does the sport of Rugby League matter, or humanity itself? Let's just stroll on down to the Wasteland and watch the world end with a whimper.

What Wilkin has said or done in the past is irrelevant to the question: does he have a point?

Surprisingly, it really is that simple.

Just call it a hunch.

Well, if it is that simple then no, he doesn't have a point. Not an important point, and not a point worth airing to the national media on the day after a superb Grand Final, on a weekend with no football, when the sports pages have acres of space to fill, and when it's highly possible you're about to be named in an international squad with the player you're namecalling.

For someone who's supposed to be one of our more intelligent players it was spectacularly poor judgement. Worse judgement than jumping up and down and being an annoyance on the pitch.

So he should shut up and let a moron like Bailey act like an embarrassing bully of a child and get away with it? I think not. Bailey deserves all the bad press he gets and much much more.

I have no time for Bailey, he is a cretin. But I agree with this post.

If you've got a player housing, is the most effective way to sit him on his backside the next time you play, or to whine to the press? Whether intended or not, the timing looks entirely like sour grapes and our club should be above it.

Wilkin has already pointed out that some of the senior Leeds players were unhappy with the antics, and likely the coach, so let Leeds sort it out. Meanwhile we can man up and concentrate on winning one of these finals we keep getting to...

Actually, I would suggest it was very good judgment. But then I tend to favour people who are (a) honest, (b) thoughtful and (c) brave enough to be themselves. He clearly felt for the young guys and spoke out about Bailey being a childish dick. Nothing new in Bailey's behaviour; he is an embarrassment to the game.

Wilkin has spoken up about many things: player welfare, he is an ambassador for the State of Mind project; the playoffs and how it rewards mediocrity (and look how many people now agree with him). The sport needs people who speak out and I'm glad he does.

What a ridiculous post. When is Wilkin supposed to sit him on his backside when his childish behaviour happened after the GF had finished? Next season? And how can saying 16 Leeds players are professionals, Leeds deserved their victory, and Bailey shouldn't have fronted up to our young players in the way that he did possibly be sour grapes? He isn't complaining about the victory; he's complaining about one man's attitude towards a few young guys who were cut up.


Wilkin was our second best tackler in the GF. Only Roby tackled more (with 45 tackles). Wilkin mans up in every game he plays. There's nothing soft about Wilkin.

I didn't say it was sour grapes. I said looks entirely like it given the timing. If Wilkin had to go to the press because nasty Ryan upset some of our young lads, perhaps the day or two after the GF isn't the time to do it if you don't want it to look like sour grapes.

The time to sit him on his backside is the next opportunity you get. Saints need to learn to settle these disputes on the pitch, maybe then our soft underbelly wouldn't be exposed quite so often. Hopefully Perry can bring us a bit of yarddog back into the side.



I like Wilkin. A lot. But he's no enforcer - he ran away from Senior, FFS.

As much as there is a way to win, there is a way to lose. This isnt Wilkins first whinge post GF loss.

If all that is true, Why is it wrong for Bailey to celebrate in any way he likes? Bailey earned the right to celebrate on Saturday night by winning, if Wilkin doesnt like it.........Be better.

Your argument works exactly the other way around that 'bad winners' is simply a retort for people trying to impose uncomfortable triumph-lessening realities and then in the end claim any criticism is relying on 'bad losers'.

Bailey owes nothing to Makinson, Roby, Wilkin or any saints players to lessen the hurt of defeat. They are his enemy. The aftermath of battle has always been the promised land for Victors and hell for the defeated. Its the reason we play the game and watch the game. The fine line between the two. Walking that line between euphoria and depression.

There is no reason for Bailey to hide his pride and happiness under a bushel and lets not pretend that anything Bailey has done in his entire career is below a team which has employed players like Sculthorpe, Pryce, Long and Sonny Nickel,

I'd ask Keith Senior about that. He went down like a sack of sh*t when Keef whacked him a couple of years back. I think he'd been winding Senior up at the time so it's a bit hypocritical for Tiny Tears to start moaning about Bailey now.

How long should he have waited? Until it began to look like bitterness? C'mon. IMO he did the right thing and I'm glad he defended our lads. It would appear that you wouldn't! You would be too worried about how it looked!

Btw how do you know he went to the press? They could have come to him, seen him being annoyed, asked him why and he told them. We don't know how it all happened.

And he didn't run away from Senior. He didn't react to Senior, and got the penalty as a result. Stop making things up.