Anderson was completely out thought in his Grand Final tussles with Leeds. They blew us away. I'm not suggesting Potter is better than him just pointing out that Anderson was hardly a tactical genuis. He gave us strong defence (which was critical to our success under him) and that one move with Leon looping around but that's about it really. I don't really recall a moment where he did a Brian McClennan (and I'm just using McClennan because that's what he does exceptionally well as a coach) and completely shut down an opposition team by using his own tactical nous.

i think we didn`t qualify for the 2005 grand final because of injuries sustained at Wigan the week before the play offs.

So, despite us dusting Leeds on a regular occurance during Andersons reign, he was somehow outgunned in finals only? Seems strange. I agree that we were blown away in 2007. No question. I don't blame Anderson for that performance though. We beat Leeds 2 weeks previously in the qualifying semifinal. Do you honestly believe that Tony Smith could personally turn a 2 point defeat into a 27 point victory 14 days later by coaching nous alone? No chance. We bottled it that night without question.

I do agree that Anderson's finest point was his coaching of defence but the bloke needs at least some credit for his coaching ability. You don't win as much as he did with just a good defence.

Our record v Wire and Wigan this season reads L6 W0 D1 L5.

Excluding Good Friday when we played for the full 80 in the rest of the games the score has been

0-16 (Final score 16-16)
0-18 (Final score 18-25)
0-20 (Final score 10-32)
0-18 (Final score 28-35)
2-18 (Final score 12-1icon_cool.gif

In 5 of the 6 games we've not got past 2 when Wire/Wigan have been at 16 or 18, yet rallied well to make the scorelines always look respectable. It's hard enough beating Wire/Wigan without giving them 16 point starts all the time.

McClennan would be happy to give Anderson credit for his acheivements. The point some of us like to make (try to anyway), is that Potter gets absolutely no credit from some posters when, as any reasoned observer could see, he did alright.
The situation is inflamed when said critics then happily excuse other coaches of flaws that they would have villified MP for.

I'm not particularly arguing for or against Potter, more arguing for Anderson. I've got to say that Potter had us playing some of the most turgid rugby we've seen at KR for many a year. Other than that, his results stack up pretty well against most SL coaches. At this moment in time of our last 4 coaches, I'd have Anderson clear of Millward who is clear of Simmons and Potter who at this moment share equal billing. I do think that Simmons has seen a worse injury list than any of his predecessors but he certainly has his failings and I'm not convinced he's the man for the job.

That play off game in I think 2008 he did though. Leeds came in expecting a repeat of the previous year and a massive battle up the middle with the forwards, a real arm wrestle. DA got us throwing the ball around out wide and we destroyed them IIRC?

I know. I'm don't argue for Potter over other coaches we've had, but certain posters won't give credit were credit's due, which is unfair to a guy who ddid alright for the red vee.

I think the point is we did ok despite Potter rather than because of him. There were constant rumours that a number of players were unhappy under him and with his methods and as a fan I have never been as bored watching Saints as I was watching his teams. At the forum the reaction of the players on the panel to my question and the followup question 'what do you think he did well'? was pretty funny. A coach doesnt have to be liked but they need to be respected and I dont think Potter had the full respect of the squad

Wasn't that at home though?



I'm not dismissing his coaching ability just pointing out that tactically he's no Benitez. I would suggest that Maguire is a newer version of Anderson although we haven't seen enough probably of his tactical coaching to see. Tony Smith is certainly tactically wise, after all wouldn't he have been at the heart of planning Leeds' kicking game in those Grand Finals when they kicked us to death?

Yes, exactly. My original point was that Potter sent us to sleep in the second half (we would often be holding on to a lead that was slipping away from us) whereas Simmons wakes us up (we come to life and start playing). The above scores back that up. But my point was a flippant one in response to other flippant comments (specifically by McClennan), starting with the comment made at the fans forum that Potter's half time talks were boring.

In your opinion he did alright. In the opinion of those who don't agree with you, but instead who didn't think he did alright, he didn't do alright. If I felt so inclined, which I don't because I have debated this so often it bores me rigid now, I could put across a perfectly reasoned argument as to why I consider that Potter was NOT alright. I'm sure you could do so to suggest that he was alright.

It's just opinion. I was very glad to see him go and my view has not changed one iota since.

Let's hear it then?

At about the 65th minute mark we do I suppose.

There are allways rumours that players dont get on with the coach and are unhappy,some players didnt like Mcrea some didnt like Hanley some didnt like Milward ect ect.In hindsight we did ok under Potter we were 2nd in the league and got to 2 grand finals.

If we dont get to the grand final this year then under Royce we have done worse then Potters 1st year and next year will be the real tester for Royce.

It's pretty tough to judge millward and DA to potte and Royce. Basil and DA had a very strong squad and was spoilt for choice. DA dropped fozzard and vinnie Anderson from two finals which showed the strength in depth. These was times when saints club had ambition and recruited top quality players.

Look at the squad potter and Royce have had to work with compared to the millward and DA days. Both potter and Royce has terrible injury situation which ain't helped.

The only way we can compare Royce to potter is by their records and it's obviously clear we've not improved this year as our attack is worse, we've finished a place lower, failed to beat any of top two sides.

Let's hope Royce can go one better than potter and win something.

Very true! As a few know on here I'm mates with few saints lads and early in the year not many had a good word to say about his methods. They said nobody got what he was putting to them.

We went on a pretty good winning run and all was happy in camp again. The point I'm making, rumours always pop up when teams are playing bad.

I know players who didn't like millward, I know players that didn't like potter and I also know players that don't like Royce but that's at every club.

Naughty naughty Pete. You missed out the one stat in Royce's favour.

A better defence.

We've had a better defence this year to last year. Personally I think we have stood still. Where as Warrington have advanced, but the jump is doable with the squad we have. It's not a chasm more a stream. Quite easy to hop over but you need the confidence to jump in the first place.

Also with Milward we did have full and thin years. We did not finish top every year under milward and he did bring through players too. I think DA had the strongest of squads and sensibly moved on the year we started to thin out.

I wasn't sure on the defence stat and I'm not the sort of guy that searches the net for stats.

Millward wasn't stupid, he knew finishing top means nothing these days so he picked his games and had us peaking play off time.

according to Ade that sums up his HT team talks

And my point, which you appear to be completely oblivious to, is that it's no good waking us up halfway through a contest when we've already gifted the lead to somebody. Surely it's better to be holding onto a lead after an hour than it is to be chasing a three try difference after twenty minutes.

A bit a of a silly point as neither are good situations, we dont want to be in a position were we have no momentum in the second half but equally we dont want to be chasing down big scores either. My point earlier and the comment made from the players was Potter's HT team talks were shockingly bad, in fact if what KC said was true it's the worse team talk I've ever known in my time in Rugby (And I've been through hundreds of teams talks)

I've read all 5 pages of this so far and its a really good read to see this discussion by knowledgable Saints fans about your former coaches.

As an outsider (Warrington fan) I am surprised to see some people saying they rated Millward above Anderson, IMO Millward was massively overrated and had the good fortune to enjoy 5 years of about a 10 year period when Saints had the best squad in the game. I think if DA had taken over Saints after Hanley then Saints would have been like Man United, won nearly every season, instead of only winning 3 SL titles in that time. It still shocks me that Bradford won 3 titles in that time because you look at their squad against Saints and they were good but in every dimension they were a slightly lesser version of Saints: Lowes/Cunningham; Withers/Wellens; Forshaw/Scully; Deacon/Long etc. I thought Millward built a reputation on controversy and big ego and he rode off the bandwagon of a great team which enabled him to pick up trophies, but he was hopelessly exposed at Wigan as not up to the job. Anderson IMO is the best coach in SL history with Tony Smith close behind.

I would have jumped at the chance to get DA as Warrington coach but I would never have wanted Millward, I doubt Millward could have achieved any more than Cullen, whereas I think DA could have done what Tony Smith has.

As for Potter he took over a team at an awkward time, where there are a lot of great players who have won a lot of trophies, slightly past their best, and its difficult as a new coach who hasn't won the trophies with those players, to manage the transition, look at Liverpool under Souness or Leeds under McDermott. In those circumstances I thought Potter, and now Royce, have done the job well because Saints have been within touching distance of trophies and still are. But neither Potter nor Royce are in the league of MacGuire, Smith or Anderson.

In Potters last season, remember the debacle at home against Hull in the fog? Well I know for a fact that potter was given 3 games to turn it around or he was gone. The club would have put KP in temp charge for the rest of season. Anyway, that week, the players had a meeting and decided to change their style of play back to what worked for them rather than how potter wanted them to play. The players felt they were being embarrassed by their own perfomamces and took matters into their own hands. Things certainly improved and potter kept his job, but it was down to player power rather than Potters coaching. Just looking at him in the ht team talks on sky with the dressing room camera, it was obvious that he offered no motivation whatsoever and had lost the respect of the senior members of the squad.

In which rugby league universe is being in the lead after sixty minutes not a good situation?