How do you know we are in decline? Is that based upon our failure to win silverware? If so, you have mighty high expectations of us! The last time we failed to win silverware was 2003, so it has happened before in Superleague. We may not be in decline. We may bounce back with a newly rejuvenated side next year, who knows? We may not, either. We'll just have to wait and see.

I was very happy to get in at 8-8 at half time, with what felt like fk all territory.

Don't mean this as a dig, and its obviously something you know, but you are losing legends year after year, Longy gone now, one more year of KC, possibly losing Eastmond too - obviously some salary cap cash is being freed up each year, but to replace the likes of Scully, Long and Kieron who have not only been immense players but part of the fabric of your club is a tough tough ask.

Not winning a trophy is just one indication of Saints decline. But other indicators are:
- Not finishing top in the regular season for the first time in 5 years.
- Losing more established stars with no obvious replacements.
- No longer bringing in big name players to keep the up the momentum of success.
- No obvious replacements coming through the ranks.
- Playing quite poorly this season at times and particularly towards the end of the season.
- Potter doesn't inspire confidence.
- Stories, from sources close to the dressing room, of unrest in the camp.

I am not saying Saints will become a poor side but they are clearly in decline from the highs of recent years.

Oh, I forgot - the declining crowds and disinterest amongst the Saints supporters. You see, even they acknowledge the decline.

The big worry now must be - New stadium, no team!

I remember kidding myself with that one when we lifted the title in 98, after everyone had written Wigan off when Super League began.

It was a hard fall from the top. I suppose with 1 title in 7 years, you aren't really falling from the "top" though

We didn't win trophies in 1998, 2001 or 2003 either. Were we in decline then, too?


We haven't finished top at other times in the Superleague either, were we in decline then, too?


We lost Tommy Martin, Paul Sculthorpe, etc, etc, but we carried on winning trophies. Were we in decline then, too? And who is to say we have no obvious replacements for Longy and Gilly? Did you not see Eastmond tonight? And we do have another second rower on his way.


Big name players don't equal success. They can be rubbish in another team. Likewise, no-names can become big names in another team.




No, of course not.


Change of coach, slower PTB (when a quick PTB was what we based our game on) and about eight weeks of serious injuries (up to 10 players at one time out injured) also influenced that.


He doesn't with many fans, me included, but how do you know whether he does so with the team?


Which equals gossip on here and elsewhere, and speculation in the press.


Maybe. Or maybe this is just another 2003. I guess we will all find out in the fullness of time!

i think next year is simple, and comes down to Kyle Eastmond, sink or swim.

i think the pack is huge, may have a couple extra second rowers inc the dixon, ashurst and warren thompson who has been playing really well in the reserves

potter needs the balls to drop meli / gardner if playing poorly but it comes down to eastmond needs to learn how to really take the team around the park...not like the huddersfeild semi final

next year could still be a good bright year....................i hope

at the end of the day the roll of honour will still say....
winners 2007,2008,2009......LEEDS
To lose three in a row is something that you will be tarnished with......FOREVER












BYE BYE SAINTS YOUR A SPENT FORCE

At least we were there though eh

You won the Challlenge Cup in 2001, shame a Wigan fan has to remind you





No, you were in ascent.



But then you had a squad of brilliantly talented players at their peak, not fading 30-somethings and kids coming through who get pasted by Wigan.



Sh*t happens!!





We sure will

I know but losing 3 in a row is a terrible legacy.

When you look at the record books and see

Winners: leeds runners up: saints
Winners: leeds runners up: saints
Winners: leeds runners up: saints

It just reeks of leeds ownage.

Winning 3 on the trot is unprecedented.......but so is losing 3 on the trot!

The recent saints team has been a very good team but it will be remembered as that team who were leeds b*tches in the grand final for a few years.

In a similiar way the early sl era bulls team is remembered as the 'anyone but saints' team.

read in the programme thats 5/2 for a saints leeds final next year, bet you can get good money on leeds turning us over again.



i really hate leeds

Pity you don't rest it in your mouth.
Can't you just go and play with your pie eating friends (sorry forgot you don't have any apart from jonh - in whatever re-incarnation and that buffoon fistula) and stop spouting this ugly mixture of spite and jealousy?

Get a fecking life.

Whilst i far from think it's the decline of Saints, and I was genuinely upset for you guys tonight (some of my best mates at work are Saints fans), I think Rogues's reaction is maybe just a small reflection of some of the patronising childish crap that's been posted by a [ismall[/i minority of your fans on our board for the past few years - you only need to look at the antics of your south park flavoured friend on pretty much every other board going just as an example.

I'm not condoning it, as personally I think we're all RL fans and shouldn't be looking to point score.

Super League needs all the teams to be growing stronger, and I think this is just a blip for Saints (I can't envisage a long term decline). It will be hard to replace KC, Long, Gilmour, Wellens etc, but you'll get through it.

Brian , you have not won more than the mighty Wire though. Now the North West 's premier club

Look at your INS and outs.

You ain't even got a real coach.

If were a spent force then it doesn't say much for Wigan or the rest of super league.

The game last night could have gone either way and even Leeds will say the is nothing between us.

Just check the odds for next year. Even Warrington are above Wigan with the bookies.

Wigan have huge problems as squad is rubbish. Look at your starting pack in the semis when we knocked you out.

Did we? Oh. We have won so much silverware over the last 10 years I've clearly got mixed up.




That makes no sense in relation to silverware won and lost. Warrington could hardly be said to have been in the ascendency this season - they are the same team as last season and a number of seasons before! - yet they won silverware this year.


We do have some fading 30 somethings although we are getting rid of them in twos. But that doesn't mean that what we are replacing them with will not perform well next season. In fact, they could actually be the breath of fresh air we need. Kyle Eastmond certainly is!


Indeed. But of all teams in the league it was us who built our play on a speedy PTB. We weren't expecting the change and adapting to it, with a team who has been playing a certain way for years, has proven difficult.


Indeed. Interesting times ahead.

Indeed. Sinfield would never have opted for that drop goal so early in the second half had the team and the coach not thought the task a tough one. An early drop goal is always a sign that a team knows it is on the rack and needs every point. It's just a pity a couple of our players - Meli and Cunningham in particular - couldn't have borne that in mind themselves when they were gifting points to the opposition!

Please tell this to Mr.Peacock and Mr.Senior.

Being 30+ doesnt seem to have dented their abilities too much does it.....

I agree and whilst i'd take our squad over yours those saying the decline of saints is on are way off the mark.
You are rebuilding no-doubt and the resonsability within the team is changing but IF you are in decline then the rest of the league must be looking to improve 110% because you are still the 2nd best team in the league.

Spot on mate. That's what I'm saying.

It will be Leeds and saints again in 2010 with maybe the wolves there or there abouts.

why the pie-eaters keep coming on here mystifies me..
theyv'e had more coaches than the national express bus company and still won naff all.

It is quite amusing really to see Wigan fans crowing over Saints not winning a trophy, rather than bemoaning the fact that they were beaten in 2 semis! As a Wire fan, I would still be very wary of any Saints team, whoever they are playing.
But, if this crowing helps them through the dark winter nights in King Street, who are we to deny them.