I disagree that our nightmare is our half backs. The halfbacks we had last year were doing fine, developing nicely. The mistake has been to put Hohaia in there and mess it all up. What we really need is a couple of feisty props. We miss Jammer massively. TP and LMS are both lazy by comparison to Jammer and neither has anywhere near his level of skill either, which makes things worse. We have been bullied out of some games which makes our halfback situation even worse.


Meli?

He scores some tries and people think he's fantastic. He is thoroughly lazy in defence, as was again seen on Friday night with the ball bouncing over his head (good job a Cas player wasn't quick off the mark or else that would have been a try for them). He hardly ever looks for work either (and I've seen many on here criticise Makinson for that). We have functioned in spite of Meli more often than not for a good few years now.

Wilkin and Wello I will grant you (although both have had mixed seasons and Wello is often undermined by his tendency to have unseemly strops).

I think that had that happened this year, with Wellens being rested like Hodgson has been at Wire at times, then there would have been far less criticism of the situation.

Can I just make sure that I have got this right you are saying that almost all of the 257 times he has carried the ball this season have been passes/kicks to his wing - that seems an awful lot of ball going over to his side of the field - but you would have to admit that with him making the most metres of any back in the team with 2364 that we should be grateful that he does get so much ball - perhaps teams should start to not target him as he is such a dangerous person to have carrying the ball.

He's also mean to dogs, kids and old ladies.

The Half Back situation is a massive priority for Nathan Brown as is the front row in my opinion. Without question we need a organising 7 that can guide or team around the park. Ever since Longy departed we have been lacking alarmingly in the department. As I have said on numerous occasions before Laffranchi should be moved into the Back Row, preferably at Loose Forward in role that Jason Hooper did so well in 2006. Puletua into the front row would fix this problem up without having to go into the market place.

I think the moving around of players would help this year, but for a team to be challenging I think you need 5 props.

ie Cayless, Fasavalu, Baloo, Graham, (was it fozzard?)

But we had 5 props on rotation in 2006, if we where caught with injuries one week it meant at worst we had 3 damn good props with a couple of 2nd rowers filling in on the bench.

Yes it was Fozzard. I doubt you will ever get 5 props of that class again in the same squad tbh. Perry, Puletua, Clough, McCarthy-Scarsbrook are up there with the best props in Super League when they are on fire which they havent been for the big games granted. If we can add a s***house prop to that Ill be happy.

I think the priority is to get the half backs into some decent play making roles they have had nearly 30 games to sort something out. We,ve got Wello and Wilkin helping out which seems to be the only option at the moment, which is not good enough.

Our front row is looking decent Perry, Roby and LMS are a handful now, everyone will be lazy compared to Jammer, but LMS has one of the highest metres gained in the team and will probably finish the season on 3000 metres. TP has not been as good this season, do we know if he is still carrying that shoulder injury.

For Meli, I.m not sure which season you are talking about its certainly not 2012. Meli has been pretty decent this season loads of trys, loads of metres, loads of tackle busts, loads of offloads. And with the amount of carries he does it suggest he does a lot of work. Yes he is a liability in defence at times, but we have never really had a winger 100% bomb proof.

I agree we may not get another line up of props like that, but having the 5 gives that element of competition for places, no point having an off week as when it comes to the big games you may not be in the line up for the final.

At the moment we could name our 4 props for any final or important game regardless of form.

Add just 1 more quality prop and then suddenly a place in an important game is no longer assured and everyone ups their game week in week out to make sure they are in that position.

I think that is where Wigan have gone well competition for places keeps that intensity up within the squad and therefore the intensity up in the weekly rounds.

If we look at our line up there is no competition for prop, none for hooker, there is some at 2nd row, but not much as Flannery knows he is off next year and sia is a cut above the rest.

So our pack lacks almost any competition really, with only Flannery and Flanaghan competing for places.

I would not suggest rotating the backs, but there has been some competition in the centre spot and some for the wings as injury has helped there.

Naming the same four props is what we are doing 99.9% of the time! There is no competition there at all and they no reguardless of form there gunna be picked for any game not just an important one or a final. We have to add a class rough house prop who is no-nonsense! A half back is also a priority as Lomax and Hohaia are just not firing at all as a combination. If we signed a organising 7, moved Lomax to 6 and had Hohaia at Full Back I again would be happy with that. Gaskell will have to bide his time, there is no doubt he has the quality to be a very good Super League player but im undecided as to what position. I think he could become a very good Loose Forward..

Quote ="SaintsFan"Hohaia is a world cup winning fullback. I think to question his ability there is foolish. He succeeded there against Australia, which is more than Wello has ever done.'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 112502.stm

Quote ="SaintsFan"Hohaia is a world cup winning fullback. I think to question his ability there is foolish. He succeeded there against Australia, which is more than Wello has ever done.'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 112502.stm

SaintsFan isn't the only person to push Hohaia as a fullback because he was part of a World Cup winning side in that position. I'd hope these same people don't think Anthony Stewart is a better winger than Tom Van Vollenhoven because he was on the wing when we won a World Club Challenge.

Given how poor Wellens has been and how horrific the half backs have been, it's ridiculous that they've not even tried him there. He'd contribute a hell of a lot more in attack than Wellens and probably defensively too, his pace would get him to balls and tackles Wellens would just arrive at when they are being scored, an example being Hohaia chasing back for the tackle against Warrington when Wellens was huffing and puffing and being passed by the props.

We would have to put up with a few dropped high balls and the odd absolute clanger, something a lot of Saints fans seem to judge as the most important aspect of the game.

That wasn't the world cup. Beating an understrength Kiwis side in a test series or the Aussies here and there isn't the same as being a world cup winner. Wello was dismal in the world cup I watched (as were his team mates!).

I've no idea whether Anthony Stewart ever played for GB/England (before my time) but a player doesn't get to win a world cup without being extremely good in his position, whichever position that might be. The reason why we are tosh at international level is because we don't have that level of player throughout our team.

Sorry to be a bore but that isnt strictly true - my memory is that there was Brent Webb and Lance Hohaia who were the only players with any kind of experience at Full Back - I cannot remember why webb wasnt chosen (I think it was either Injury or the fact he played in the UK) but it didnt leave a lot of choice to pick from.

What the Kiwis had was a pack that were fed on raw meat for a week before the game and smashed the Ozzy pack - plus a master stroke of playing Thomas Leuluai at hooker with Isaac Luke as backup (Hooker has historically always been the Kiwis weak spot but this turned it around for them) to allow Benji Marshall to play his best game at international level that I can recall. Remember that earlier in the tournament the Kiwis were battered by Australia 30 - 6 with a team that didnt have those changes in it.

I'm not saying it is. You said that Wello had never done it against the Aussies. I was just pointing out that he was part of a full strength GB team who beat Australia in their own back yard. In their prime. He scored a try in the process and was excellent all game. As excellent as Hohaia was 4 years ago when he was full back for NZ against Australia in the World cup final. Neither of these games has any significance whatsoever as to who should be playing full back for Saints now though and to keep shaking the "world cup winning fullback" stick is pointless in 2012.



Not often no. It doesn't automatically qualify him to be the best option at full back for Saints, 2 knee operations and 4 years later though.

The point I made about Anthony Stewart was to say that a team can win anything even with an average player in their side. Who did Spain have up front when they clinched the European Championship this year? The most ridiculed striker in World football, Fernando Torres. Ricky Bibey won Challenge cup medals with Wigan and Saints, likewise Steve Hall won every domestic medal available with Saints.

IF we had to move Wello from full back, and I'm not advocating that we should just stick with Wello if something better comes along, then I'd rather Lee Gaskell played there. I'd love to see him hitting the line with his rangey running style. Think he'd be a revelation there if he was up to the defensive aspect of the job.

Hohaia would be no upgrade on Wellens. I'm sure he's better than Wello at the odd thing a full back would do but overall Wellens is still a much better option. Trying to shoehorn Hohaia into a role because he isn't cutting the mustard in the role he was signed to play isn't particularly fair on Wello.

I know Wello has his limitations. There are other options at Saints as well to replace him in Gaskell, Swift and Makinson. Hohaia wouldn't even be in my thinking.

I thought the topic was swift but here we go again with Wello bashing.

Fact is, Wellens has been one of our better players this season (I think he is top try scorer as well) but some think he is not worth his place. If Wellens should be dropped then 75% of the team should be given a free transfer because I'm sorry, they are just not good enough.

Some fans can't see the wood for the trees though. They see fall over the line tries being scored as a player contributing well to the attack and they see a player not dropping bombs or knocking on as a player being good defensively.

In reality Wello is at that stage of his career where most of the game just passes him by as he's not able to keep up or get into the right position. He's no more than solid now and is definitely holding us back.

I'm defending Wello.

Well if he can play prop, second, row, wing, centre of half back as well as any of those he's welcome to move there. What is it that's stopping you from seeing the issues he has that contribute to the overall effectiveness of our attacking gameplan? Why can you not see them?

Perhaps he isn't blind to the fact that our problems are more to do with pedestrian ball from poor halves than who is on the end of it?

Or the slow, poor distribution from dummy half?

Nice myth old man.