I think Wilkin really puts in the effort for you lot, he's a dirty git, but he puts a lot into his game from what I can see.

Flannery?

He wasn't technically out. He is just so average they forgot about him and left him at the services on the way down by mistake.

Wilkin

With a fully fit perry/Pryce/flannery/wellens it would have been diffrent.

Well, they managed to draw (and nearly beat) the best team in the league, so I don't know how anyone could come to that conclusion. Neither team played particularly well, but if someone offered me that result before the game I would have have taken it in a flash considering that we played an inexperienced half-back combination just back from repetitive injuries.

I would give it time (and some defeats) before smashing the players to bits.

Utter cr@p is a bit strong but for most of the game it did look like we were incapable of putting a decent attacking move together, never mind scoring a try.

Having said that, I think we have a solid side would have beaten most Super League teams today. That's not going to get the silverware though. We need the quality to unlock the defences of our nearest rivals in the big games.

Wigan were the same as the entire of last season, immense out of the blocks, 4 man tackles and big runs forward, by 60 mins though they're knackered, but theryre usually 30 points up by then so it doesn't matter, keep them within 20 points and you can beat them in the second half

Yup. It's going to take a while for Simmons to undo all the bad work there. However, unlike Potter's Saints, this Saints didn't give away a match in the last 20; they came a goal kick away from winning it. Ha! We were actually fitter than The Champions! And more composed (unlike Potter's Saints). And we didn't leak more than 20 points! (Didn't manage to score more either, which is like Potter's Saints)

Things are going to take time but IMO there was plenty in that match from which to take encouragement.

Just seeing the faces of the Pies in Cardiff was enough!

I've never been a big fan of either Roby or Wilkin, but I thought they were two of your best players last night.

Sorry but shenton is no way a replacement for gidley..

Never been a big fan of roby? Do you not like the best players in league?

No-one else has disputed that the decision was correct, except, most surprisingly, Phil Clarke and Brian Carney, whilst even more surprisingly Mike "Saint Stevo" Stephenson agreed with the decision.

I do. I just don't think Roby is.

I'm not a big fan of Graham's either, but he is at least one of the best props in the country.

You don't rate Graham or roby!

Are you being serious?

One thing that cheered me up no end was the fact that I know of someone from W***n who put £2k yes two thousand on Wigan to win last night.

Roby was head and shoulders best player on the pitch, but that's what we expect from a World Class player.

I thought Wilkin played pretty well too. He tried hard and because Eastmond didn't look like he could @rsed, i think Wilkin was playing more like a half back and i thought he did well.

Roby is world class without a shadow of a doubt as is Graham, i would either a wigan in a heart beat. Dont rate wilkin though.

but a mistakes a mistake. the third try was clearly forward by about three yards but it was missed. we all saw that too.

I never said I didn't rate Graham. If you had actually bothered to read the post I described him as "one of the best props in the country."

As for Roby, whilst I think he's an above average club player, he was definately one of your best players last night. However, he certainly isn't one of the "best players in league" as Ashy claimed.

Roby and Graham are two of the very few world class players we have playing in super league.

But he obviously is one of the best players in the league, hence the mos award, regular starts for England and being chased by numerous nrl clubs. To suggest that he isn't is just ludicrous and shows a complete and utter lack of any rugby league knowledge!

Because Potter is no longer our coach. We had more stamina than Wigan; the complete reverse of the situation under Potter. We didn't give away penalties like Wigan did; the complete reverse of the situation under Potter. We are faster than we were last season, due in part to not looking like teletubbies; the complete reverse of the situation under Potter. And on top of that, Roby was absolutely magnificent for the full 80 minutes. Keiron who?

Firstly, there's no need to get abusive just because someone disagrees with you. Secondly, you said he was one of best players IN LEAGUE. He's not even the best hooker in this country, let alone one of the best IN THE SPORT AS A WHOLE. Thirdly, winning the MOS simply means he was adjudged to be the most influential player that year. And that year was 2007. Fourthly, Cunningham never won MOS, so are you claiming that Roby is a better hooker than Cunningham was?

I disagree with you about Roby, but I can't argue about Graham. Graham's the type of player opposing fans dislike but would welcome with open arms if he moved to their club.