I'd never doubt that. Saints are a top club with a rich trophy count in the last 60 years. But you won 1 championship and no Challenge Cups (with no World Club Challenges back then) in your first 80 years.

Cas have never won a championship and that's not embarrassing, they're a decent club who have won 4 CCs. You'd never catch me belittling Cas for never having been champions in their history. But Saints fans are the absolute worst for belittling Wire's achievements and are obsessed with this championship drought of ours yet we have been more successful in the last 62 years than Saints were in your first 80 years, so are you saying that for well over half of your club's existence you were an embarrassment?

I hate St Helens with a passion, but only some one kidding themselves would suggest Warrington are a bigger club.
The biggest 3 teams in English Rugby are Wigan,Leeds & Saints.
I think it would take a sustained period of success for Warrington to have any claim at all.

See Judder man's beautifully articulated reply.


Couldn't care less about Warrington or their lack of success, but I'll certainly attempt to remind the fans of it when they choose to come on our forum and gloat not about a victory, but about the shoddy officiating.

A big club is a team when you scroll your finger down your fixture list, and tap it on their name, making a mental note of when you're playing them. Saints fans do that with Wigan and Leeds. When we see Warrington's name we just think, 'best not take my car to that one'.

To get across the car park,Kevlar clothing and a crash hat ordered for next season!!!

How do we define 'biggest clubs'?

My take fwiw over the SL period
Trophies - Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Bradford
No. of fans - Wigan, Leeds, Hull
Turnover / profit (my guess) - Leeds, Wire, maybe Wigan
Youth development (not just where youngsters come from) - Wigan, Leeds, maybe Wire and not sure about Saints

Why would you cherry pick 7 years randomly as a comparison point? Is that because you coincidentally won your first recent trophy 7 years ago? Seems a bit convenient to me. As a comparison point, it would make much more sense to either cover the last 10 years (3 Challenge cups, 4 LLS and 2 SL titles for us vs 3 challenge cups and 2 LLS for you) or 5 years (1 LLS & 1 SL title for us vs 1 challenge cup & 2 LLS for you) and you've hardly eclipsed us in any of those comparisons. And where are the facts backing up your apparently higher average attendance? That's the first I've heard of it. Not calling you a liar but colour me skeptical. 12k for a semi-final (with 3.5k being from away fans) hardly screams big club.

In terms of attendance are we just picking out this season or are we going to go on the past don't know how many years? Because Saints have had bigger average attendances than Hull, especially since 96. Happy to be corrected on that.

In the current squad, you have Lomax, Makinson, Percival, Swift, Roby, Richards, Savelio, Thompson, Greenwood, Fleming, Knowles with the likes of Bailey, Wellington, Davies, Ashworth also making appearances this season...they all came through the youth development. There is plenty of talent playing elsewhere in SL and the NRL who came through our youth system. Our u-19's have just won the Grand Final and gone through the regular season unbeaten.

'Maybe' Wigan as you put it, have also produced a conveyor belt of continuous talent.

Not sure on our youth development?



Off the top of my head - lomax, Makinson, Percival, swift, Jamie Foster, Lee gaskell, Jamie Ellis, Chris dean, Wellington, ashworth, Jamie Ellis, Eastmond, James Graham, James Roby, Keiron Cunningham, Paul Wellens, Greenwood, Thompson, Wheeler, Richards, Knowles, emm it, Josh Jones, savilo, dixon, Ashurst, tyrer, Armstrong

That's just off top my head so we not done bad

Its not about "biggest club" the term is "A Big Club" by way of stature in the game from the youngsters through to the senior professionals. In stature Bradford, Saints and Leeds have had long periods of domination, Wigan have had a couple of shorter periods of domination all at the highest competition level.
Hull and Warrington have been front runners throughout the season and are knocking on the door, but they have not been involved in a high percentage (60%) of play off games throughout the 19 years concept.

I,m assuming Youth Development (Saints) is just a wind up.

Warrington need titles. You can't lay claim to being one of the games biggest clubs if you haven't won a title in over half a century. Titles are needed, not just one but multiple. Since the inception of the grand final on only 3 occasions have wigan not been either in the grand final, or the grand final semi. (99,05,06). That's some serious sh*t, consistently being there or thereabouts. Saints have never not contested the playoffs. Leeds have won more Super league grand finals than any other team. Rome wasn't built in a day.

In all honesty, I would say that Saints are the bigger club but we're getting closer. But how many more seasons of crap recruitment, dull as dishwater rugby and falling attendances will it take for the perception of Saints as a big club to go? Anyway, as a Wire fan, I'm enjoying the excitement of quality signings and being in contention for all major honours over recent years. It certainly feels better to be on the way up than on the way down.

This!!!!!



You finished 6th last year (5th the year before)...do you know when the last time Saints finished 6th in the table mate? I'll tell you, the 1990-91 season. We still got to Wembley that year.. That's what it means to be a big club. To always be there or thereabouts. We finished 4th this year and most of the season we've been shouting for our coaches head because we demand a certain standard on a regular basis, season after season.

Warrington are a million miles away from sharing Wigan, Leeds and Saints pedestal.

agree 100% I'd add Bradford into that list as well. ...are you shouting for Wigan on Saturday?

Nah mate. It's a no win for me this weekend. It's like picking between gastroscopy (Wigan) or colonoscopy (Warrington).

I genuinely wish you an enjoyable evening though. It's going to be a brilliant game.

Bradford are nowhere near the three most successful clubs. Swinton and Salford have won more the same amount of championship as Bradford. Huddersfield have won more championships and more CCs than Bradford

talking super league era.

who gives a toss whos the bigger club and whats the prize for being the bigger club...nowt..any way it seems you`ve got over thursdays game..

The bigger question is why Warrington fans haven't?

They are the ones that started and continued most of the threads on this Saints forum.

You think they'd have more important things to consider.

we have saturdays final..hope you enjoy the final from your arm chair whilst our small club and its fans lock horns with injury ravaged wigan

Headline: "Warrington are giant killers once again"

Awkward.....

Have you got any particular year in mind for when it matters.

It might be 2008.... wrong date, was it the last time saints were at wembley.
Saints fans, a question? You have 2 choices:

Option 1:
Watch a dull as dishwater side making no finals, with a statue outside representing the static qualities
of a certain clubs ethos.
Option 2:
Side in the CC final, ll shield and GF final playing proper entertaining rl.

I'm not going to mention the playing rota of both clubs:

Option 1: watching paint dry

Option 2: not watching paint dry.

I know saints are the biggest club v us at the mo, but you're the gift that keeps giving. For years you've laughed at us but now the shoe is on the other foot.
Face it, at this point in time your side and set up is inferior. I would expect a club of your standing to reverse this, but it ain't happening at the moment. That's what I love about the Wire v Saints rivalry- You used to take the p big time, but it's not so funny now that you're crap.

Hahahahahahahahah were so crap weve won the same amount of trophies than Wire in the last 3 years hahahah infact we have won more.

Tony Smith has admitted you are not a big team until you have won the "big one", we've got to 10 grand finals, won the big one be it good, bad or ugly on 5 occasions. You don't have any shoes to wear because zero wins on 3 occasions is a 100% failure rate a funny situation to be in from our perspective.