Havent you won your last 6 or 7 games?

Didnt RS take you to the GF last season?

Yes, but only because we had very limited opposition in the playoffs on the way there

*sigh* "When there's no room left in hell, the (brain) dead shall walk the earth (in Wigan)...."

How much bigger than Odsal is it?

I honestly think Saints have too many journeymen who are stealing a living for Saints to be a quality side again you need to get rid of Wellens (Retire), Shenton(Cas quality & you should have left him there), Wheeler (Salford, Wakey or Widnes quality), Perry (send him home), Flannery (Retire), Clough (Bradford), Maggennis (Hull KR, Wakey London), Foster (Bradford, Hull FC) for me Saints need to build a new team around Roby, Gaskell, Makinson & Lomax Saints need a quality Full Back, they need to throw some good money at Cudjoe, Arundel, Clark & Brough, Kopszcak highly unlikely obviously but those 5 with Roby, Gaskell, Makinson & Lomax then Saints would be a force again.

Saints 2014 should line up something along the lines of:

1. Lomax
2. Makinson
3. Cudjoe
4. Arundel
5. Turner
6. Gaskell
7. Brough
8. Kopzcak
9. Roby
10. Scarsbrook
11. Soliola
12. Wilkin
13. Batemen

As a neutral, I thought Wellens was actually one of your better players. Everyone knows he's slow but at least he runs a decent line and anticipates a pass brilliantly.

I'm actually glad we did not sneak a few scores at the end. If we had it would be easier to hide the fact that we can't create.

1 Wellens 4/10 - Made one of our few breaks and he maybe slow but there was no other Saints players backing him up either. Offers himself up to take the ball in when others just can't be bothered. May need replacing at the end of the year but to be totally honest I would not trust Lance to make a better fist of it. Was not good enough for the finch try.
2 Meli 5/10 - As always the same with Meli looks dangerous when the ball is in his hand, but looks dangerous for Saints when defending and the ball is kicked.
3 Shenton 3/10 - Bored of waiting for something like an international performance, he maybe injured but basically it's been 1.5 years of waiting to see something, and to think we shipped out Gilmore.
4 Wheeler 4/10 - a below par performance for Wheeler, first game back but made a few errors, but gets a point more than Shenton as at least he went looking for work.
5 Makinson 7/10 - Good game for him showed what he can do with no service.
6 Hohaia 1/10 - Offers nothing, no kick, no runs, no organising, sorry but a white elephant
7 Lomax 4/10 - Offers himself up unlike Lance but telegraphs that inside pass, defensively culpable today in 1st half.
8 Perry 3/10 - Gave offloads some ok others dodgy but other than that
9 Roby 5/10 - Spotted a few gaps and went for them but no one with him or did not see them.
10 Laffranchi 6/10 - Did what he could
11 Soliola 5/10 - Never got going,
12 Wilkin 4/10 - Anonymous, till about 70 mins
13 Flannery 4/10 -

14 Maggenis 4/10 -
15 LMS 4/10 - had no impact
16 Clough 4/10 - little go forward
17 Flanagan 4/10 - Smashed Lauaki but that was an accident nothing more than that.

the performance was gutless and sums up the weaknesses in our squad and the mega bad judgement of Simmons during his tenure - we got away with it last season with the kids doing well when required - lets get the kids back and if we go down then at least we go down with some dignity - lets face the truth, the team sent out yesterday was inept and not worthy of wearing the shirt IMO - many of the players are either past it or not good enough at the highest level - rant over.

well done to the other lot btw - they really embarrased us

As much as it pains me to say it,I have to agree with your summary.

Re: Wellens

His chiming into the line on loop-arounds has been one of our main attacking tactics in recent weeks, and it's been succesful. This game, wi*an really did their homework on the move and totally nulified it. As it's Wellens getting caught with the ball, it's him who gets the blame. The really annoying thing is, we just kept trying and trying it with the same failed result. (The only other plan we seemed to have from the line was the predictable simple charge by any player who fancies getting gang-tackled and stopped in their tracks, wasting a tackle in the process)

Of course, the negatives to Wellens' performance is that far from the first time this season, an opposition player has tiptoed around him, leaving Wellens floundering on the floor. We're not talking speed merchants in wide open play, either. Even just a year or two ago, you'd have staked your trousers on Wello cleaning them up.

I know people are narked with the performance yesterday, but lining up to slag off a legendary player nearing the end of his career who's been generally great in recent weeks but who had a bit of a mare yesterday, is both infantile and disrespectful.

Stadium, not hole in the ground!

You do have a point re: Shenton, Perry, Flannery and Foster

But...

Wellens - I actually though he had a decent game; got rounded by Finch, but that is down to his pace and he cannot personally help that. He was one of our better performers yesterday.

Wheeler - one of our most naturally talented youngsters and will step up as his development progresses

Clough - He has been in decent from the last couple of weeks; you can tell it's his final year of his contract! Always reliable in defence and in making the yards. I'm sure he'll improve vastly under Brown.

Magennis - Had a staggered development because of injury so is behind, but still showing great potential. Not good enough in the collision yet, but under Brown I can see him improving ten-fold

I watched the game on TV yesterday, I have no axe to grind. I thought Saints lacked penetration, and Wellens has always been slow. He was put into space yesteday and easily caught. Having said all that I thought at least two of Wigan's tries came from moves that were clear obstruction and Saints were unlucky to concede. Having said that they never looked like winning the game.

Until the final

saints were v dissapointing especially in attack but i have to say that wigan look a damn decent side and unfortunately could get better
when more of those passes land.

I just think whatever else you do in sorting out the forwards, you need to get Lomax out of the halves and put him in at fullback. I think he'd flourish there and give you that extra bit of pace coming into the line that you wouldn't get with Wellens.

What's happened to Gaskell? Is he injured or just not getting a look in?

Makinson looks a far better fullback. Lomax is a 6.


Not getting a look in.

Granted I don't see as much of them as you do, but I think Lomax could be devestating at FB, keep Makinson on the wing for the time being, what's your alternatives in those areas? More players with little pace?

I've seen Lomax at fullback and I've seen Makinson at fullback and Makinson is the better fullback, bearing in mind both are early on in their careers (especially Makinson).

its very disconcerting when you talk sense

Fair point I thought you meant current playing resources! You do have an excellent youth set-up and Rush is an excellent junior coach but I am not convinced about the standard of players you have brought through or the quality of those in the immediate pipeline. Obviously, there is time for some young players, currently in your squad, to improve but only time will tell. Your U15s look good but the U16sand U18s appear to be a fallow years, with the odd exception.

I think you will find that Wellens goes around again next season, don't forget that these guys are in it for the money, and rightly so. You could move him to loose forward. Roby is top quality but needs to play behind a better pack. Wilkin is a good utility player but would never make my starting 13 and Gardner wouldn't even make my squad.

What have those players got to do with our young guys?

Nothing, you need to read the other posts.