12,000 at JJB and 9,000 at Headingley, and the play offs are supposed to be our Jewel in the Crown!

I think your mean suggesting Wigoon are a 1 man team , I mean they have the kick to Paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat tactic too!

How many did you get at Quins?

Money is tight, simple really.

It was a fantastic performance and I dont know where it came from because we haven't produced anything near that level all year. Defensively, I was very impressed. We actually looked quite confident defending our own line for a change despite alot of Wigan pressure at certain points in the game. Our scrambling defence was top notch and there was a determined steel about our defence that I've not seen from us this season. Offensively we also looked quite balance, and whilst there is definitely improvement in us in this area, we didn't simply go down the left hand side of the pitch - in fact, we attacked the right side more. We also offloaded and hit angles better than we have done for a while. Our PTB speed was also dominant and was killing Wigan in the 1st half.

It was a great effort and with a few further options in two weeks with returning players, Simmons has some selection dilemmas. The week off will do us good and will keep us nice and fresh for a final push. It was a very important result for us mentally aswell as physically.

Not convinced we'll go all the way yet, but we can certainly start dreaming more than we could a few weeks ago with performances like that.

COYS!

If wire pick Wigan I'll change my signiture to read.

The wire are the greatest club to grace super league bar none.

For an entire season.

Personally Ithink both Huddersfield and Wigan may struggle to make it through. If it was a choice of Leeds Catalan that is more of a choice. Catalan finished below leeds but Catalan are a very tough side.

I reckon Leeds will beat Huddersfield no worries. Huddersfield where gone about three months ago. Good start kept them in the top four. Catalan are unpredictable. But they know how to beat wigan. The good thing for Saints is that Wigan and catalan play on Sunday so does not give a long turn around for the semi.

As for attendances daft structure that makes repeaters likely does not help as fans hedge their bets on not having to fork out twice for the same game.

Everybody wants to see a great defence. What we don't want to see is defence artificially elongating the PTB. That ruins rugby league as a spectacle. What Wire now have and what Saints showed on Sunday was sound defence without that deliberate slowing down of the PTB. That meant we had the best of both worlds: great defence but a game at pace and intensity. I enjoyed Makinson's tackle on Carmont as much as I enjoyed any of the tries. That was a man on man tackle but it was very skillfully executed and worthy of the song we sung for him! THAT is what many of us mean when we talk about good defence, not having three men peeling on and off, taking up 11 precious seconds of viewing time.

As for our performance, one of the many things I found encouraging was the introduction of the inside pass. Clearly we are gelling as a team now, because (touch wood) we haven't had mass injury exits for a little while and so Royce will be able to build on our attack. To see us use the inside pass, play direct, run good lines, go forward and pass out wide, use the right and the left ... it is all good. I hope that continues and it wasn't all just a one off to beat Wigan!

Why Tomkins is !

Has stated Leeds have played at a far less intense level and has I have siad Wigan have managed to turn potential points avanlanges into tight games with inablity to kill teams off!

Wigan coming off the back off the challenge cup showed that its maybe now beyond us to raise to the levels needed 2 on the bounce. Catalans wont be a walk in the park and to beat them will take a huge effort.



Yes but we are asking people to pay near enough £20 on a ticket for games live on sky 2/3 weeks on the bounce then possibly a grand final add travel on top of that and an expensive weekend in london wasnt to long ago for some then its not as appealing!

And Saints fan care to name 1 tackle on sun that took 11 seconds?? No thought not. Saints get numbers in the tackle. Quite a few times on sun the 2nd/3rd man got invovled just as the attacker was going to ground. Was this in an attempt to speed the game up??

No, and that's one reason why the game was attractive to watch.

That's all well and good but Leeds haven't managed to perform at a level capable of beating the top three. Even in the cup final, where some Wigoon fans have said they didn't play particularly well in, it still wasn't good enough. What makes you think that Leeds can throw off a season of mediocrity like it was a summer duvet cover on a hot morning? A couple of wins against poorly performing or uninterested sides doesn't suddenly mean you're a force that's going to storm the barricades of Old Trafford. Hull KR beat Saints and Catalans whilst Leeds beat Wakefield, Huddersfield and Hull. I don't think anybody was coming out and saying Hull KR were dark horses for the final so why bother hyping up Leeds so much.

Leeds have quality players no doubt but let's not apportion the same fear and respect to them as the champions because the latter has earned it whilst the former has squandered and lost it this year.

But, Wigan did win the league with it last year. I don't blame them. Its a tactic that works and doesn't affect their go forward. Its the officials that let the precedent start under instructions from above. That obviously doesn't excuse chicken wings, ninjas, cannonballs and crushers, though.

We don't want super fast rucks that lead to heads down scoot, scoot, scooting, but we don't want 5 minutes betweens plays either.

Ganson seemed to be on a mission in the Wire game to keep a quick PTB which crucified Hudds. Hopefully he'll get the Wigan Cats game aswell and do the same - bwhahaha.

Yes we have done loads of chicken wings, ninjas, cannonballs and crushers!

So? That doesn't make it attractive to watch or in fact necessary. Warrington have the best defence in the league this season and they don't slow down the PTB in the way Wigan can do. Teams don't have to do that to have a good defence.


Well, it didn't work against Warrington and it didn't work against us on Sunday. Coaches have gotten wise to it. Hopefully that includes the Dragons' coach!


Nope. I think Wire have the best balance. And us, based on our game on Sunday.

Wigan have got the trophies inthe cabinet, and they've done it with a much more modest squad of players than Wire have running out for them. It obviously works.

Hopefully coaches have got the measure of it, but I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

It's all about perspective.

Leeds have been poor most of the season so their recent performances are viewed in that context.

Were they champions or a top 2 team they'd be viewed in the context of a team coming back into form. The thing is, although leeds have had a couple of iffy seasons consistency wise, they still have the spine that won 3 titles on the trot so you can't really write the current mob off, however unlikely.

Leeds have a bad record against the top teams this year. But you have to remember defeats against warrington and saints came at a time when they simply weren't respecting the ball and defence was shoddy. Since these issue have been corrected and they've pushed wigan damned close twice.

Again, I say ... so? We had trophies in the cabinet under Millward, but he didn't use that style of defence, nor did McRae or Anderson. Anderson of course introduced us to the concept of defence and so we weren't as flighty as under Millward but we didn't play to slow the PTB like Wigan aim to do. There are other, equally if not more so effective means of defence and since Warrington have the best defence in the league this season it is logical to assume theirs is actually the most effective.

unfortunately that "spine" is now old and well past it. Senior and Peacock and Webb are 2/3 seasons past their best and Burrow/maguire/sinfield just havnt been able to recreate they're old form

So, I'm saying its worked for them. Its been a major factors in winning trophies and being the best team in the competition. If a coach finds something that works, he's going to use it.
Yes, but do you reckon Millward could've won the league with the Squad wigan did?

Except they aren't the best team in the comp. Warrington is.

And it still spoils RL as a spectacle.

And I can't now remember what the original point of this exchange was!

I agree with the middle bit. My point is that its down to the officials, and the guidance they receive from above to keep that side of things in check accross the sport as a whole.
Wigan are only playing the game as they're allowed by the officials. The tactics they've employed since McGuire arrived made a half decent bunch of players into the best team in the competition.

We were just talking about good defence, but how the freedom players have allow the Wigan tactic to dominate the specticle.
As solid as we were on sunday in terms of making tackles when we had to, Wigan still made yards with every set easier than you'd think. That probably kept them as close as they were. If we'd have controlled the ruck as they can, we'd have won by 30 points.

I thought you are a teacher? Warrington is? Warrington are!

Warrington maybe the best but we can still be champions

Actually, at the risk of appearing pedantic (

) "is" is strictly correct. Warrington in this sense refers to a team (singular) so the use of "is" rather than "are", from a purely grammatical position is the appropriate usage. Of course when referring to teams the common usage is the plural as in "Wigan were garbage on Sunday" rather than "Leeds is a fading force".

Where SaintsFan did go wrong is using the singular and plural terms in consecutive, related sentences.



Is it Australia or USA where teams are usually referred to in the singular?

Anyway, English lesson over.

Indeed I did (go wrong, that is).

I was being a bit RFL there (inconsistent). I'm on a message board and not in the classroom so I don't pick up on other people's use of language (unless I'm feeling y) and I don't really take much notice of my own.

America refer to teams in the plural. I think Australia follow us in this respect (or follow us when we are applying the rules of British English accurately anyway).

That's been our style pretty much all season, to a greater or lesser extent. I can only remember one match - and I can't remember which one it was now - when we stood out by pushing up in defence. We seem to hang back and rely more on scrambling. If that doesn't knacker us then so be it. So long as we work hard and are effective then that's what counts. Ideally we wouldn't have conceded that try before halftime on Sunday but we didn't slide, Makinson was drawn in and Wello had a brainfart. Hopefully we will learn from that and from the other bits and pieces that weren't quite there. However, I am glad we haven't gone down Wigan's route as it means that when things do click for us, we are a good side to watch.

On the attacking side, it was encouraging to see how Royce has been able to build in more sophisticated plays and better lines since he has had a relatively stable team to train. He also said that although Gaskell had only played ten minutes in a few matches he has been training with Lomax and Pryce in the halves, so he has kept up to speed with what Royce is trying to achieve. I think that was obvious on Sunday.

Agreed, line speed has never been great all season. Not missing tackles is the main thing, but giving up field position too easy will be a thorn in our side as the play offs get tougher.