Don't worry - as each of the last 3 seasons have shown us - nathAn will be linked with a move back HOME soon

Nah that wasn't it. Yes, your pack dominated ours but that happened last season too and the one before because we have weak and lazy pack. But for Saints it was a whole team effort. At least under Simmons we could scramble defensively. There wasn't even the effort there to be bothered with that.

Some of us didn't think he was. We weren't all drooling over him you know! I was one of the cautious ones, and I'm still cautious. I know we don't have much in the way of players these days either and they have a lot to answer for just as they did with Simmons this time last season.

We was destroyed in every department. Its as simple as that.

I just hope it was a bad day at the office. Sometimes you get them games and I hope it was on tonight.

I must say, I'm concerned about things I seen tonight. They destroyed us in every department.

I didnt like seeing the forwards doing the ball handling, we ain't the Canterbury Bulldogs. We lacked ideas just like last season. The forwards looked like some have gone a season to far. Halfbacks looked poor like season. The list could go on.

Unacceptable that for a home opener with a new coach against his former team. To be out-enthused and out-played so easily makes this probably the worst home opening since newly promoted Doncaster turned us over in Bobbie Goulding's debut. It's the first game so I'm not writing off the season but if we don't improve our defence (as I was expecting under Brown) it won't matter what we do with the ball.

To be fair to Manu, he is an attacking player who in a good side will be a big asset, I've always rated him since he was at Cas, the players to really blame are the established ones Roby, Wilkin, Wellens, Meli etc, absolutely no sign from any of them that they have been St Helens players for years.
I said on our board that its far too early to write you off yet, but as bad as you were, Hudds were really very good.

I live for days like this.

We all can't wait for your latest appraisal of Wellens' performance...

Lets be honest, he had a total shocker today.

That's because they have. But surely you saw that last season too? I did. It was only Jammer who kept the forwards honest. Without aggressive forwards who are willing to tackle then the halves don't have a fighting chance, especially halves who weren't allowed to play together last season.

He did. He had some of those last season too. This really should be his last season. And Meli's. And Perry's. And TP's. And Wilkin's too on the basis of tonight's performance! To be fighting while there is almost a try being scored is just beyond ridiculous.

Add Laffranchi to tha list as well.

To be fair, the pack did ok last year until we come up against a big physical pack.

I question if TP wants to play anymore but seems happy to take his salary. Hes to lazy for me and looks like he couldn't care less.

Perry (see my previous posts)

Wilkin, he's been rubbish for years but could get away with it playing in a great team but now we see the real wilkin.

No you got it wrong, he will move Lomax to prop Roby to full back, Hohia to wing and Meli at hooker. It`s all good stuff from Nathan, he likes to mix and match, as we found to our cost.

I've just posted it the thread I started. I'm right.

SP,
The problem with that is losing four aged overseas players is who do you replace them with. you don't have the younger players good enough coming through, and the overseas market has virtually dried up.

As I've said due to the silly early kick off i couldnt get to the game, so my question to those that who were there, is what happened to the team that ripped Hudds to pieces 3 weeks ago? i know that was only a friendly but WTF??

Two things happened. The whole of the Hudds team turned up this time (last time they were missing their forwards) and none of our team turned up this time.

Too many players have been here too long now. Wellens should really be used only as a squad member now, not the starting FB and captain. Meli should have been binned, Wilkin too. He is just a penalty machine. Hohaia is a waste of money that could be used urgently elsewhere.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction on the base of today's performance. Anyone with 2 eyes could see this happening last season, and nothing has changed, apart from the aging players getting older.

What is worrying was the absolute lack of energy, urgency, cohesion and teamwork. Considering we've just come out of a full pre-season with a new coach, and no players called up for the England squad, that is not good enough by any stretch of the imagination. I notice the crowd was already down on last season. That has to be a worrying stat for the club.

Also - and yes, this is flogging a dead horse - but the stadium looks a right mess without cladding. Like some ty Subbuteo ground.

I expect them to receive an @rse kicking of the highest order this week.

Has Nathan told the players he might be leaving at the end of the season?

not yet

Tonight was the first time I've ever considered leaving early in all my time watching the club, when the try from the scrum went over. I don't know what stopped me, as the effort was simply unacceptable and players gave up 20 minutes in.

There's a long way to go, and Leeds have put forth shocking performances like that and gone on and won it. However, I don't believe that we have the spine of the team nor the grunt that Leeds do, but only time will tell.

Backsides need to be kicked, the forwards need to front up and the half backs need confidence. Most of all, we need a leader, it is hard to imagine a team with a Joynt or Sculthorpe crumbling like we did tonight.

100% of the blame for that performance should go onto the players, the only improvement I can see is last year they managed to get the coach sacked in 6 weeks. They might go a bit better this season and manage to do it in 4 weeks.
Embarrassing all the way from 1 to 17, gutless for almost the full 80 mins, congratulations to the giants great performance from them similar to the one they did on the Wigoons same time last season.
Half back pairing back to the worse ever, no second phase again just one up rugby the most easiest to defend against.
My sympathy goes to Brown, signs were there in the friendlies that we were going to play a good defence and more variation in attack. The players then come up with this load of rubbish, I,m expecting a Jeckyll and Hyde season if the players don't sort there heads out.

Spot on.

But I disagree with your point about the halves. Nothing they can do with such a shambles up front and Gaskell is on a hiding to nothing. Had he returned in a team playing anything like half decent he may have felt more confident but he was bound to be edgy after so long out and with expectations running so high.

Yep,he should be returned to Hull a.s.a.p.