There appears to be some quite harsh criticism of some fans here based on what?

Has anybody confirmed that fans moved from the seats to this stand? I saw that they thought this may have contributed, but it sounds pretty unlikely to me.

Why would fans pay for seats and then move to the terracing? How many of them did so, as surely it would have to be quite a large amount doing this to cause a problem?

I’d be stunned if you suddenly got scores of people deciding to change stand, it doesn’t make sense.

At Warrington on opening night there were problems with terracing as fans don’t move to all of the spaces available, especially when the entrances are low down as you simply can’t see them. Strong stewarding is needed and this is now in place at Warrington, although too late for the higher capacity.

To attack a group of fans when nothing has been proven is strange to say the least.

Tickets now available for Hull game.

Based on feedback from the club, who will have had feedback from the stewards.

Those of us who have season tickets in the West Stand and who value the relaxed nature of the concourse and want to see it continue have every right to criticise those fans who have put the whole thing in jeopardy by deciding to stand with their buddies/take a look from a different angle/whatever motivated them to change stands.

If fans have crossed over into the West stand from where ever when we played Widnes, the club would have learned very little about the safe capacity of the West stand, not knowing how many crossed over. So it looks like the club have to try again not knowing the true number in the stand against Widnes, they will start with a reduced number against Salford, and no movement from one area to another, this will give a more accurate figure of what the stand holds.
Against Widnes about 80 fans were moved out, who knows if there is room against Salford (and there should be) could we see fans being asked to move back into the West stand, at half time to gauge things even better, just a thought that last bit.

It cant be a massive problem, only about 80 fans were moved out of the West stand, counted most of them, but its a safety issue, and it needs to be sorted.

But you don't know how many moved from the North/South Stands to stand in the West, and that is a problem. The only safe way is to segregate the four areas, =#FF0000most people will be in the same areas as their friends/family anyway.

Here we go some knowledgeable person who hasn't even set foot inside the place telling us it's the ONLY safe way.
It beggars belief!!

Set up barriers between each area to a height of 4 foot. On top of the barriers fix a worktop such as found in any kitchen. People can meet with friends and chat across the 'bar' without trespassing, then go back to their own seats/stands whilst always being kept apart but still being able to socialise.

Simples, and only a small cost (relatively) compared to losing a thou off the west stand gate due to safety issues.

You are making a massive assumption that all the people that can't get a west stand ticket will just decide not to go. Presumably some will buy more exoensive tickets and some will go in another standing area. Also the 2000 figure sounds rather large.

So Salford fans are being expected to pay £5 more than they would've paid in the east terrace?

I doubt that. I would imagine, though obviously I don't know, that since the arrangement was initiated by Saints, Salford fans will pay only what they would have paid in the East Stand. But they'll get a seat instead.

2000 may well be rather large. That's why I said 'say'. I was just giving an example. But, say, we could have sold 18,000 tickets for the Salford game, like the Chairman was hoping for (according to what he has said in the press). We definitely won't be selling that number now. So whether it is 2000 fewer or 500 fewer, the club will have lost money as they won't be able to sell 18,000 tickets.

Lets look at this with a bit of logic. Tickets were primarily available to season ticket holders and then later non-season ticket holders too. As I understand it, seating season ticket holders were not guaranteed their season ticket seats once the advanced booking deadline was passed. Therefore we can put the fans that entered the west stand without a standing ticket into three categories:

a) standing season ticket holders who bought a seating ticket but moved
b) seated season ticket holders who bought a seated ticket but moved
or
c) non-season ticket holders who bought seated tickets but moved

Whether it was because they wanted to sample the atmosphere from the different areas on what should have been a special night... because they wanted to stand with friends... or simply because they wanted to stand but were too late to buy a standing ticket only they know, but given the limited capacity of that game I can see why people might not have considered this a problem on the night, nor that it would have such a drastic effect on the capacity status for future matches. Inconsiderate? perhaps. Unsurprising given the circumstances and what we know about people not using their brains to their full extent? definitely not.

Looking at the three categories above I honestly don't believe that it will be an ongoing issue, certainly not something that some better stewarding can't help resolve. I'd like to know the percentages of how many tickets for the game were sold to season ticket holders vs non-season ticket holders. If the vast majority of tickets sold went to season ticket holders then I would suggest that a) and b) will not, or are at least unlikely to happen throughout the season, whilst the possibility of c) happening again is limited due to factors such as
the small numbers of unallocated seats available and could be helped by simply warning fans against moving stands when buying tickets/printed warnings on tickets/via the PA system/signs above the tunnels etc. Short of segregating the areas completely or perhaps doing so after kick off, you'd probably struggle to stop everyone from moving stands but we don't want segregation on the concourse anyway do we.

A bit of common sense is all that is really needed from the fans in future.

I'll also add that the West Stand didn't feel over capacity to me and it was clear that there was more room available towards the North West corner. I imagine better dispersal pre-kick off and at half time by the stewards & fans themselves would have helped in that aspect.

From where I was sitting in the South Stand, the West Stand never looked like full capacity at any time during the match. The siuggestion of people migrating over into the West Stand is probably an inaccurate one, this would have to be fans moving in there hundreds.
Obviously the problem was herding of the fans in the west stand due to the NW corner wetting condition and Stewards not strong enough to control the fan distribution.
One idea maybe is to barcode the non season ticket holders for the west stand so that they have access only through the North turnstile and therefore we have a chance of filling up the West Stand evenly. Obviously the cladding will alleviate the problem, in the meantime the West Stand fans and stewards should show some common sense and spread out to reduce the risk of a reduced capacity being a permanent one.

agree with all of that, and as others have said too, from my seat in the north the west stand didnt look full in the nw corner

I was in the NW corner and I can confirm there was plenty of space in my end of the West Stand.

I was also in the north west side of the west stand, it was crowded but birthing bad and certainly not to many where I was stood.

Pretty much agree with this. There were undoubtedly some people who moved over, however this will not have unduly affected the terrace capacity, as it was operating at a reduced capacity for the friendly anyway. The fact some people were suspected of switching stands will be however frowned upon by the authorities and gives them a stick with which to beat Saints with, so to speak.

The big determinant IMO will have been the inability of the stewards on the night to ensure that spectators were evenly distributed throughout the west Terrace.
The South West corner was a proper full terrace, but the North West was pretty empty.
Therefore i would imagine the safety authorities would look at the potential on a full capacity game, for the South West corner to get dangerously overcrowded. As a result they have taken the decision to cut capacity, until such time as is shown that the stewards are not allowing fans to overly crowd a section, and at the same time spectators have decided to spread out more evenly across the stand.

Those terraces by the way should be able to hold legally nearly 5000 people if maxed out, however the club went with initial stated capacities of approximately 80% of said values eg 3800 per terrace. I would imagine for the Widnes friendly this capacity was set even lower, probably only 3000. The fact this caused perceived issues will be in part why they are not allowing the full 3800 in for the Salford game.

As an onlooker from the North stand on the night of the Widnes match, i looked to see if people were crowding onto the concourses, as happened at the HJ during their first games, and nothing like that happened. Everyone was stood behind barriers. Hence afterwards i was surprised to read about people being moved away from the terrace.

The popular side at Knowsley road was often more crowded than we saw at the Widnes game.

It's going to be an absolute nightmare getting tickets for the Wigan game. Wigan will want 5000 for a start that leaves just 2 or 3 thou for sale to Saints fans (depending on the safety cert number allowed).

For the first time there might be a lucrative tout market for tickets. I reckon they'll be going fo 100 quid easy.

They can want all they like,but they'll get what we allow em.

Hopefully not, but there might be a distinct possibly that the East Stand could be reduced if they don,t resolve the situation quickly in the West Stand, this probably effecting the Wigan and Wire games.
Who would have thought it, if we go over 10 000 season ticket holders and with advanced match tickets, this might leave a very limited no of tickets for walk ups or tickets on the night.

does the east stand hold 5000? doubt it, they can have 3000 to start with and thats being generous!

That all?

They brought 7000+ to Knowsley Road every time





Give them 3.5k and no more.

It appears we are being charged the full £23.50.

Are you? I'm surprised, I must confess.