true : but there was no plan B when we came up against a team that could stop us dominating in the middle.

Sounds like Wigan under Noble.

And Bradford under Noble

Do we have the backs for a plan B, especially if you take Eastmond and Pryce out of the equation?

No one said it had to be a good plan


Seriously though, even if we did have this elusive plan B, executing it on the field without your first choice halfbacks is another matter.
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Did DA have a plan B? I especially remeber a couple of weeks against Hull FC when they proved otherwise...
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Would Wigan have had a plan B had Tomkins and Tommy (Pryce and Eastmond) and Feka (Maurie) been injured for them and we had a fully fit team?

We looked slow and lacked ideas with both our rapid creative half backs out. Funny that.

Reverse the circumstances and Saints would be champions and Wigan well beaten. That's RL I'm afraid.

Exactly. A point I've been trying to make for a while. They won't have it though, once a team wins a GF they are instantly installed as favourites for global domination and are talked up to the stage where they are unbeatable.

Wigan this year were very well prepared and did fantastically well. They were however also very lucky, both with injuries they didn't get and injuries that destroyed Leeds' and Saints' seasons. Wigan lost at home to just about every meaningful team in SL for example. Leeds, Wire, Saints, Huddersfield and erm.... Harlequins. They were not the marauding avengers everyone makes them out to have been. Good team, good season. Even with the 3 star players coming in it's far from certain they will clean up next year. Injuries to three props or two half backs at the same time and they'll be as lame as Saints and Leeds were this year.

But the problem is with all that: we weren't lame. Not only did we get to the Grand Final but if we hadn't indulged in ball dropping and giving away penalties, we could have won the damn thing. We had two open doors in the second half. Who knows how many more we could have prized open with more confidence?

Wigan have been a first half team this season. I think all that three man tackling takes it out of them. Had we had more composure and better defence we could have withstood that, as we did at the DW, and come back in the second half. Had we performed as we did three weeks earlier, when we probably gave our Grand Final performance against Warrington, we could have won.

Our missing halfbacks were not the problem on Saturday night.

I know what you're saying but in fairness - we had more composure at the DW because Leon Pryce was playing and in red hot form.

We were also far less creaky in the centres because Flannery was there - big mistake from Potter the way he set up the left edge defence in the GF.

We had plenty of composure against Warrington in the playoffs, enough to come back after two opening quick fire tries. Neither Pryce nor Eastmond were anywhere in sight during that match. Ditto for the match against Hudds, albeit that we struggled a bit more with that, and we lost Eastmond halfway through (not that he was ever really there to be honest).


Our left edge defence was a problem against Wire, too, but it was fixed. We didn't have Gardner on there of course on Saturday night, but our former coach was a plank.

But what people remember is that they really nailed the GF and that's what people are judging. They lost to Leeds a few weeks earlier in the play offs.

As you say, good team, good season, well coached in defence and attack, a visibly good spirit and commitment across the team. It ticks a lot of boxes and they managed to hold it together for the biggest game of the year.

We scraped our way through a lot of the season on our bare bones and limped to the GF, and many, me included, thought we didn't have a half bad chance of bringing it home.

I'd say his two GF defeats showed he didn't

Put Roberts in there and even with those injuries I think they would, they've got enough speed to put a long kick and chase in for example, we didn't. We've looked like we've bulked up too much like we did in 2007 (or was it 08?) under Anderson and our slow backs are just slower.




You'll find no argument from me on that score. IMO, put Pryce and Eastmond into that team and whilst I'm not saying we would have won, we'd have been competing in those last 10 minutes.

Didn't he move him over there after those disastrous first 20 mins?

IMO Lomax and his inexperience has a lot to do with it, along with Meli's defensive frailty. Lomax avoided almost all blame for the shambolic defence down his side at Salford, with Foster taking it all. I think he had something to do with that performance as well.

You must not have been watching us last year then because even though 2010 wasn't exactly Saints of 1996/2000/2002 or 2006 we have been a whole lot better to watch than last year.

Last year we failed to break the 20 point barrier in the last 12 matches or something similar. This year we've been scoring for fun, although mostly close range.

2009 really was the year of 5 drives and a crap kick, even if we got that far. This year was a lot better.

There is no way that this year was worse than last for entertainment value.

I can see us revert back to a more expansive type game under RS. I certainly hope that is the case. The trouble is, with the exception of possibly Shenton, we dont have anyone in the outside backs who can score a try from 60-70m out.

And that's the key point.

If we'd tried the expansive game with this side, we'd have struggled to pick up the wins as we simply don't have the players to take advantage of that system.

We're far better equipped to play a percentages game, put some pressure on the oppo line and strike from 10m out.

Potter simply played to our strengths, and got good results by doing so.

I was thinking about this and I do wonder. The problem is we never seem to see our backs out in the open. Foster (for example) seems to have good speed and a bit of pace - not perhaps enough to just out strip someone on the outside, but enough so that if he was on the break it would be hard to catch him. We just don't seem to see it very often.

Because when we make a break, the other team always have 3 or 4 faster playes who are able to get back, and stop us finishing off the breaks. We do make breaks, but in the past we've always had the likes of Albert, Lyon, Long, Sullivan, Newlove etc. who would be flying in support, but now anyone near there speed.

BUt who has? Newlove and especially Lyon were fast for centres, but Sully and Albert were a cut above. Who in today's SL is anywhere near the pace of those two?
I agree that we were short of pace this year, but if we can keep some guys on the pitch (Eastmond and Wheeler) as well as our new centre, I think that will improve things no end from this point of veiw.

No disrespect to Flanders, but I would have been interested to see what sort of specialist aussie centre we could've got for his wedge.

I'd say that most teams have wingers and centres that are much faster than ours, or they always seem to anyway.

If you look at those teams around us (Warrington, Wigan and Leeds), they have:

Warrington: Hicks, Riley, King.
Wigan: Richards, Roberts, Goulding.
Leeds: Hall, Donald.

Who have scored some lengthy trys this season, and those are just off the top of my head, they probably have others. When was the last time we scored a length of the field try?

When we make breaks, we always seem to get caught, so obviously teams have much faster players than us. We don't get the space because we are not fast enough and we always get caught.

I just think that as well as being a bit short of pace, our game plan has dictated that perhaps we only tend to spread the ball when we're in the opposition 20m. I'll tell you another problem, only having one proper centre. In 2004 Willie Talau was on fire until Gleeson got his betting ban. After that his form was severly reduced, due to the opposition only having to defend one side of the pitch against a proper centre and the other side against a 2nd row standing in the centre. Therefore, the fitness of wheeler (who I thought was looking more and more like a proper centre), or the integration of Tom Armstrong is an important factor.

I'd agree with that. Just the other day, i was talking to my dad about the last time we actually had two out and out centres in the side, and we still don't IMO. Unless one of the youngsters can step up and make that position there own, we still only have one centre in Shenton. Although Meli shown glimpses that he could become a good centre.

I think Wheeler could do it. I think he's shown some really nice touches and IIRC even did Matt King on the outside once last season, looking every bit the natural centre. Although I'm a little disspaointed by the lack of oppotunity Tom Armstorng got towards the end of the season.

i know we finished 2cnd and got to the grand final (with our usual loss).
but in all honestly we must be the slowest team in superleague.
as someone mentioned after the likes of sullivan, darren albert, jamie lyon etc
speed and back up have never been replaced at our club.