You would really select Hohaia and Jones ahead of Wilkin ?!

Lomax
Makinson
Turner
Percival
Swift
Wheeler
Walsh
Amor
Roby
McCarthy-Scarsbrook
Manu
Soliola
Wilkin

Bench

Hohaia
Jones
Walmsley
Masoe

Yep.

Obviously during the season there would be a range of teams, but I think against the best teams LMS at loose forward will be ideal. There maybe changes dependent upon form, but in a final against the best team, you can't expect Roby to be at his best for a full 80 so he needs a replacement hooker.

Only Saints have experimented with this play Roby for a full 80 and to me it reduces his effectiveness and Lance is the best replacement for him at the moment. Running at tired legs he should have some effectiveness. Roby too can go more all out for the minutes he's on the pitch rather than having to pace himself.

Jones as a sub in a final is great. He can play as well as any other 2nd rower in the team probably apart from Sia and Manu. But if there is an injury at centre (like we had with Shenton) you are not shuffling the pack, he just slots in. If a winger is injured, Turner or Percival can move over and Jones fill in at centre.
If a half is injured. Lance can slot in, or Lomax can move forwards and Shift a winger to FB with jones moving in at Centre.

It's a big bench and our most flexible bench. Wilkin whilst doing a sterling job at half last year, I don't think would offer the same effectiveness as an interchange hooker as lance and would only offer the same as Jones as a second rower, without the ability to play in the backs.

Personally, I don't think Jones can do anything better than Wilkin. I haven't seen anything in Jones so far to suggest he's anything other than another of the identikit not-big-enough-not-fast-enough backrowers Saints produce in large numbers (Ashcroft, Clough, Magennis etc). Wilkin offers far more in my view.

In addition, if I was worried about centre coverage, I'd simply slip Soliola out into the centres and replace him in the pack with Wilkin.

As for LMS, I agree that his best position is second-row, with a bit more width to use his speed. But he doesn't have the guile or hands to do what Wilkin does at loose.

In a final. As we are talking about the best line up. I would not want to have to move arguably our best second row in sia to centre. It's all a bit academic as come the time we need our best line up. Some players will be in form others out of form or injured

Agree with your logic surrounding Lance and Jones on the bench.
I have a sneaky feeling that Dawson may end up paired in the centres with Turner, as suspect Percival isn't yet ready for week to week football.

Think that having both Walmsley and Masoe on the bench coming on around the same time, may actually be counter productive. As two big men lacking that mobility could get exposed.
Ideally IMO you need a workhorse and a blockbuster in the front row at the same time. Hence I would be more tempted to start with Amor and Walmsley then have LMS and Masoe rotating from the bench.
Potentially I think LMS and Masoe would work very well together. LMS is very mobile for a prop and is best used against a defence running backwards, as his speed and mobility can tear holes in a retreating defence. He isn't however very good against set defences, as he lacks the size to bulldoze over brick wall defences. Masoe on the other hand is a wrecking ball in this scenario. So we would have Masoe destroying the defensive structure, followed by short scoot and pass from Roby onto a charging LMS with opposition defences struggling to get set.

Yep the two of these are great impact players, but by their size and nature they are exposed defensively 1 on 1.
If they're one the pitch at different times, the rest of the team can cover, but not for both together

To be honest in my line up the one who I was not sure of was Laffranchi. So swapping him for Walmsley would be an idea.

My thought with LMS as a loose forward, is that it allows Masoe and Walmsley on at the same time as effectively you are running with 3 props. But also with Amor I'd think he would do big minutes.

So tactically, I'd be looking to interchange Laffranchi around 15 to 20 minutes in with Walmsley. Then a further 10 minutes in let Masoe come on for Amor until half time.

When considering Jones as a second rower I agree with you.

Jones at centre on the other hand... We're all too quick to wax lyrical about the days of having a centre who can defend, both at saints and England. The guys defensive work is impressive in its own right, and even more so considering he's 20. Equally he clearly knows how to break the line (same number over the season as meli) he just needs to learn to finish them.

We seem to very quickly shift players like jones into the pack for the likes of more attacking minded players like Percival (not to say Percival isn't an exciting prospect in his own right) - but then wonder why we don't have strong defenders in the centres. Give jones 3 years to develop those finishing skills and we could have one of the best young centres in the world. If he doesn't move him into the second row as the workhorse replacement to Wilkin, bulking him up a bit.

1. Lomax
2. Makinson
3. Turner
4. Percival
5. Gardner
6. Wheeler
7. Walsh
8. LMS
9. Roby
10. Amor
11. Soliola
12. Jones / Flanagan
13. Wilkin

14. Hohaia / Wellens
15. Walmsley
16. Lafranchi
17. Manu

Probably the only one to go for Gardner. However, I don't rate Swift and think that a defensive side of Percival / Swift would be little more than a calamity.

Equally, Manu needs to be used in small bursts - especially as he is aging and just a poor man's David Solomona.

Have to say however that the three-quarter line looks devoid of imagination compared to years gone past, although that seems to be the trend in Super League these days. (Leeds excepted)

We do seem to have a deep squad however. (although ultimately short on top quality)

How can you not rate Swift? I am completely baffled by that. He's hardly put a foot wrong for us. Good finisher, good kick returns, poses a threat from deep.

Percival flying out of the line once or twice has left Swift exposed but that is no fault of Swift's

There was only Lomax who made more clean breaks than Jones last year. He must be doing something right.

Swift's a really good player. Whilst and England cap might be hard for him with Hall and Charnely incumbent, he could well get up to the level of the likes of McGillvary and Lineham.

You seem like your fishing, but still, I'd argue that rather than doing less minutes, Manu just needs to be kept out f the battle for the ruck, instead he should only be used wider, where his foot work can be used to proper effect.

I don't think I'd swap him for either McGillvary or Lineham to be honest.

No fishing. I just don't rate either of them.

Swift has potential, I'll grant that but to put him on the level of Lineham is ludicrous. Makinson is by far the better prospect and given that I wouldn't be willing to have Swift and Percival on the same side, I'd rather have Percival.

Manu has been a player I have not rated ever since he came over here. If you create a scoreboard whereby a good piece of skill, line break or an offload counts as +1, and a penalty, missed tackle or knock on counts as -1, I'd wager he would have as low a score as anyone over the past five years. His headline plays for mine do not justify the sheer number of negative plays he produces.

On what basis?

I was wondering the same. Makinson seems to have stalled in his development in the last couple of seasons, needs a big year. Swift is very new and has only a dozen or so games under his belt, in which hes done amazingly well, but we need to see him after a season or even two.
Im not getting too excited but signs are good so far

Swift and Makinson are two very different players. I think Swift does have a better all round game than Tommy but Tommy's finishing is fantastic.

Im happy that both play for St Helens.

On manu

I think he should come in 20 mins in then be used for the rest of the game.
Changed my mind about the lineup


J-lo
Swift
Percival
Turner
Makinson
Wheels
Walsh
Amor
Roby
Walmsley
Soliola
Wilkin
LMS

Masoe
Manu
Laffranchi
Jones

I can't 100% give out best team and the more I think about it the more I'm excited by it.
We have a fantastic squad this year
Amor has pretty much took the starting spot straight away. Great player.
Walsh and wheeler - NICE

I wish we had someone to spell roby.
Lance for me just isn't worth using at all. If a deal can be done to get rid I would.
He could prove me wrong but his lack of effort doesn't warrant a place in the team ever again.

Players fighting for spots
Wello, Flanagan, Beaumont, Ade, Clough,
And the youngsters who you would
Imagine will get a chance at some point at there will be one or two with injuries who I'm sure will take there chance and cause more headaches for the coach.

I would say that Lance is our best option for spelling Roby.
I know people will state it's too much money to be a bench player, but quite frankly it's a sunk cost.

I agree Manu should start from the bench, especially when it's wet and a tough match. His instict to push the ball early creates too much pressure on us early on.

Also Sia can do big minutes and Jones would give us a steady defensive start.
I liked Walmsley starting and the fact he did lots more tackling than last year is great.

I'd hope we could rotate a forward this week. As Sia maybe having a rest anyway. Why not push Laffranchi into the 2nd row and let Beaumount have a run up front. As an ex hull located lad I'm sure he would be eager against Hull FC to give it his all.

Our best line up

Lomax, Makinson Turner Percival Swift Wheeler Walsh
Amor Roby Walmsley Sia Laffranchi LMS

Masoe, Manu, Lance, Jones.

Our line up for next week, I go with the above back line and assuming Sia cops a ban.
Amor Roby Walmsley, Jones, Wilkin, LMS

Manu, Lance, Laffranchi, Beaumount.

For me, jones and Wilkin are too similar back rowers to start together (though his immediate displacement from centre for Percival does seem to suggest he's going to become heir apparent to the "defensive workhorse back rower" role Wilkin plays) I'd rather bring flanaghan in and start with jones on the bench again with Manu with Wilkin and Flanaghan starting. Other than that unchanged (assuming sia is banned)

I just think Manu tries too much in the opening of a game which puts us under pressure. That's why I would bench him. If he could keep a lid on it and hold the ball for 10-15 minutes, I'd have no worries starting him.

It was interesting to see how much we used Manu early on. I think he's best off the bench.

1. Lomax
2. Makinson
3. Turner
4. Jones
5. Swift

6. Wheeler
7. Walsh

8. Amor
9. Roby
10. Walmsley
11. Soliola
12. Wilkin
13. LMS

14. Hohaia
15. Laffranchi
16. Mosoe
17. Manu

I'd go with that.