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| Quote ="St pete"Does that mean the Graham saga has dented team morale as well?'"
No. Why? Graham is/has:
[list...an established player within the Saints team, has won things with us, and has proven he is worthy of hype
...staying within the sport so could still play for England
...consistently shown PASSION and pride in the red vee he wears[/list:u
Yes, the players might be sad to see Graham go but he'd be going with their best wishes no doubt. Eastmond has done nothing substantial for the team, is turning his back on the sport, and is hardly well-known for his passionate performances. That'd pish me off as a player.
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| Quote ="SaintMarshy"No. Why? Graham is/has:
[list...an established player within the Saints team, has won things with us, and has proven he is worthy of hype
...staying within the sport so could still play for England
...consistently shown PASSION and pride in the red vee he wears[/list:u
Yes, the players might be sad to see Graham go but he'd be going with their best wishes no doubt. Eastmond has done nothing substantial for the team, is turning his back on the sport, and is hardly well-known for his passionate performances. That'd pish me off as a player.'"
I fail to see what Graham has won, if he's established, or the fact he's staying in the sport has any bearing on him staying or going.
Graham will never be doubted about loving the club and the passion he shows in the saints shirt but I fail to see how what's he's done in the past is any different than eastmond.
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| Quote ="St pete"I fail to see what Graham has won, if he's established, or the fact he's staying in the sport has any bearing on him staying or going.'"
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"icon_lol.gif'"
Explain to me the difference please.
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| Quote ="St pete"I fail to see the difference ...'"
Quote ="St pete"I fail to see what Graham has won ...'"
Quote ="St. pete"I fail to see how what's he's done in the past...'"
Do you see .... anything at all?
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| Quote ="Mugwump"Do you see .... anything at all?'"
So that gives him the rite to be treated better than players that ain't won things?
Would you still feel the same if he went to Wigan or Warrington?
If he signed for the pies would you pat him on the back and say you've won cups with us, your established player and paid saints your dues so good luck in the cherry and White?
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| Quote ="St pete"So that gives him the rite to be treated better than players that ain't won things?
Would you still feel the same if he went to Wigan or Warrington?
If he signed for the pies would you pay him on the back and say you've won cups with us, your established player and paid saints your dues so good luck in the cherry and White?'"
Graham has earned the right (through his commitment, passion, relationship with the supporters and consistent level of professionalism) to go where he likes without criticism from me.
That's not to say I wouldn't boo him in a Wigan shirt.
Clearly you do not believe that a player can earn respect through his actions on and off the field. I find this weird. But I've known weirder.
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| Quote ="Mugwump"Graham has earned the right (through his commitment, passion, relationship with the supporters and consistent level of professionalism) to go where he likes without criticism from me.
That's not to say I wouldn't boo him in a Wigan shirt.
Clearly you do not believe that a player can earn respect through his actions on and off the field. I find this weird. But I've known weirder.'"
Graham has earned the respect of the fans but that shouldn't effect the way we treat him. He's done the same thing Kyle has done and not yet come out and said he wants to stay.
To say he's earned his rite to leave and join Wigan IMO is weird but I've known weirder.
On another note, I respect any decision they both make, if Kyle can make a better life for himself by going to union then I wish him all the best. He's here to make a living and same goes for jammer but to boo one player and cheer the other is weird but I've known weirder.
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| Quote ="St pete"So that gives him the rite to be treated better than players that ain't won things?
Would you still feel the same if he went to Wigan or Warrington?
If he signed for the pies would you pat him on the back and say you've won cups with us, your established player and paid saints your dues so good luck in the cherry and White?'"
Yes.
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| With Eastmond at the wheel you heading down the highway to the dangerzone.
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| Quote ="SaintMarshy"Yes.'"
I'd agree!
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| Quote ="Dei Morti Viventi"With Eastmond at the wheel you heading down the highway to the dangerzone.'"
Hmmm okay
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| Quote ="St pete"Graham has earned the respect of the fans but that shouldn't effect the way we treat him. He's done the same thing Kyle has done and not yet come out and said he wants to stay.'"
When was Kyle voted Man of Steel? When was he best metre maker for two years running? How often has Kyle been chosen for representative honours or as a member of the dream team? How many times has Kyle fired up the pack to move forward when we were being pounded by Wigan or Leeds? James Graham has more than earned his right to make up his mind about his future in his own time. Kyle Eastmond has not. That is the difference.
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| Quote ="SaintsFan"When was Kyle voted Man of Steel? When was he best metre maker for two years running? How often has Kyle been chosen for representative honours or as a member of the dream team? How many times has Kyle fired up the pack to move forward when we were being pounded by Wigan or Leeds? James Graham has more than earned his right to make up his mind about his future in his own time. Kyle Eastmond has not. That is the difference.'"
Jesus Christ, Kyle has only played 40 odd times and still is only 20 yet scored alot of points and played scrumhalf for England.
No matter how you paint it, they have done/doing the same thing by not telling us what's they doing and leaving the squad unsettled.
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| Graham is a Saints legend.
Eastmond is not.
It really can't be put any simpler than that.
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| Graham will be in a Warrington shirt next season to replace Morley who is off to Salford. Will you all be booing him now?
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| Quote ="mark_m"Graham will be in a Warrington shirt next season to replace Morley who is off to Salford. Will you all be booing him now?'"
Graham will be in an NRL shirt or some team or another next season.
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| For me the difference is straight forward, Eastmond is leaving for another sport, Rugby League is seeing zero return for thier investment, Graham staying with our sport, will almost certainly be going down under, increasing his experience, becoming a better more experienced player, providing a role model for our kids ambitions.
Not sure i'd go as far to say Graham is a Saints legend though, however hes going the right way about being a Rugby League legend.
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| Quote ="The Jamster"For me the difference is straight forward, Eastmond is leaving for another sport, Rugby League is seeing zero return for thier investment, Graham staying with our sport, will almost certainly be going down under, increasing his experience, becoming a better more experienced player, providing a role model for our kids ambitions.
Not sure i'd go as far to say Graham is a Saints legend though, however hes going the right way about being a Rugby League legend.'"
So you'd be happy for him to go Wigan?
At least he'll still be in rugby league.
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| Graham is in Saints top three props during the last twenty years.
Ward is the best I've seen, then it's a split decision between Graham and Fairleigh. The latter was more spectacular whilst the former has been outstanding in a Saints shirt for longer.
And it's not just a question of performances. Graham's professionalism, relationship with the crowd and leadership when the going got tough make him an easy candidate for "Legend" status.
Eastmond, on the other hand, is just a talented scrum half with lots of potential. He hasn't eclipsed or even approached the achievements of Long, Goulding or even Holding. Three players who did not achieve on the world stage what Fairleigh and Ward did.
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| Quote ="mark_m"Graham will be in a Warrington shirt next season to replace Morley who is off to Salford. Will you all be booing him now?'"
7/10. Obvious, but not bad.
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| Quote ="St pete"So you'd be happy for him to go Wigan?
At least he'll still be in rugby league.
'"
I wouldn't be happy for him to go anywere to be honest, but thats just me, and us, having unrelalistic expectations of our Sports PROFESSIONALS loyalty.
If Saints cannot offer him the contract he wants but Wigan (to take your example) can then that indeed would sting a little, but whos fault would that be? Certainly not the player's fault.
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| Quote ="The Jamster"I wouldn't be happy for him to go anywere to be honest, but thats just me, and us, having unrelalistic expectations of our Sports PROFESSIONALS loyalty.
If Saints cannot offer him the contract he wants but Wigan (to take your example) can then that indeed would sting a little, but whos fault would that be? Certainly not the player's fault.'"
It's certainly not the players fault and is that the same with eastmond then?
Nobody can ever blame for taking the money as players only have 10/12 years to earn good money but let's treat all the players the same who decide to follow the pound signs!
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| Quote ="St pete"It's certainly not the players fault and is that the same with eastmond then?
Nobody can ever blame for taking the money as players only have 10/12 years to earn good money but let's treat all the players the same who decide to follow the pound signs!'"
Which takes me back to my first point that although i do treat all Rugby Legaue players who 'follow the pound' the same, Eastmond will not be a RL player come season end, therefore I and clearly alot of other fans are treating him differently.
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| Eastmond is leaving the club, and the sport, that has nurtured his talents from the age of 11, to join a sport that spent the best part of a century trying to destroy RL.
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