And unfortunately that is the problem now. Realistically we can't get rid of half the squad, so a new coach will have to try to improve players who lack ability. We could be facing a lengthy period of rebuilding to repair the damage that has been done over the last couple of years

There'll always be championship clubs willing to take them on loan or permanently.

This isn't even a good Warrington side tonight. They've played much better than this. But we've been so shocking, they've been able to beat us without breaking sweat.

I think Lomax will get his pace back, I have had 2 knee reconstructions and it does take a while before the knee gets back to full strength and flexibility.

Think your a bit harsh on Lomax there, two of the tries he wasn't in the right position because other players were slow getting back and he had no option but to cover that.

"Jack Owen scorching down the touchline" never thought I'd hear a commentator say that. lol

Its a pity we didn't get hammered by 50 points to nil to accelerate the demise and the need to rebuild from top to bottom. KC can't rescue this situation now as the players insult the "saints shirt". I'll sleep on it until morning but that game is probably the last game for me now, I support the "real saints" not this shower of coaching and players rabble this season who just don't have any guts,determination and pride in the club, we could be 2 or 3 seasons away from being the next Bradford.

Must admit - not seen a Saints attack as bereft of ideas as that for a long long time - if ever.

You had enough ball but....

Watching Saints tonight did remind me of Bradford around 08/09/10.

Not the worst team in the comp, but just bang average and more importantly, just boring to watch. I actually enjoy watching Bradford more now than i did in those years.

We signed players from average teams, the likes of Chris Nero, Paul Sykes, Michael Worrincy, (exactly what saints are doing at the moment) and we just became average and a mid table boring team. Never bad enough to finish bottom, but a million miles away from challenging for honours.

Fans started to drift away and McNamara should have been sacked. But our board stood by him and the boring averagness continued. The rest is history.

Don't think it will get that bad for saints, but if the board stick by Cunningham like the Bulls did with Mcnamara, Saints will be an average team playing in front of 7k.

KC won't be getting sacked. McManus isn't going to press the big red button like that. He'll no doubt seek comfort in the fact that Warrington finished 6th last season, Hull finished 8th, Catalans finished 7th but they all stuck with their coaches and are being rewarded this season.

This season is a utter write off. Depressing.

I disagree - first try he got caught in the line because we had a late retreater, wasn't really his job to be there. Same with the second in that we needed another defender on that side where Amor was. Third one he had to join the line because they had a 3 on 2 on the blindside otherwise. Trying too hard to cover for his teammates, and ended up defending in the line too often as a result of it.

Must admit I expected a bigger drubbing than we got.

I'm not a fan of Walsh but add him to that side together with Percival and Making on and we would have had a lot more fire power but even so we're very predictable.

I know Warrington had players missing but they had their first choice players in key positions.

I can't recall the last time we had our first choice three quarter line in place, I'm not even too sure what it is..

This season is a right off by the time we split into the super eight the top four will be clear of the pack so it's unlikely we can catch anything up.

We need to be making a shopping list now for what we need to strengthen the team fir next year.

In a few months the club are going to be trying to promote offers for next year's season tickets..........they'll need to come up with some significant names before I'll be parting with my hard earned cash

The Hoodoo is now well and truly over and put to bed.

I fully admit that prior to the game I was concerned but after 5 minutes I could see you had nothing in attack and your defence was average. On twitter Saints fans had been saying to me how poor Saints were but its only after seeing you last night that I can agree. At the 50 minute mark the game was won and our players took their foot well off the gas and merely went through the motions. At the 65th minute we rested Gidley & Sandow. If we wanted to we could have put 40 plus points on the score board. That was the chasm between our 2 teams last night.

In KC's defence he didn't drop the ball and throw passes into touch. Nor did he make basic errors. On the walk back to the Chalon St car park listening to Saints fans you were both stunned and in despair. I think the top 4 is set now and it will take a monumental collapse by 1 of us for Saints to get into it.

What a sad dismal night full stop, first few minutes once we heard the death march, oh when the Saints, who came up with that? then it was just shocking, the backs are bad, but the forwards are no better, all the props manage is two steps forward, no one with real passing skills, even Roby cut a sad figure the player has been burned out in bad pack, there are so many players who have little between their ears, no rugby brain. Never did I think I would see the Wigan walk and so early as well.

Are Catalan going to roll over next week? doubt it

Saints at the present time IMO the most poorly coached Saints side since the Murphy days.

However its not just Saints who are being poorly coached, it is across the league, which is awash with British coaches of limited ability. Its why Saints currently sit in fifth place despite being inept in many areas.

Gone are the days of teams being improved by Australasian coaches who develop players skills and who impart professionalism.

There are a number of players at Saints who were good and have declined in performance over the last two years. It is not a case of some players going past their peak, we have seen reductions in standard from players in their mid twenties as well as the kids.

ive always said that you can judge the coaching level of a side by the teams ability to defend. Teams with class players such as Saints (and yes we do possess them) should be able to attack. It is in the defensive department which is about structure, technique and communication that we fall down on.

I have some sympathy for KC as he was offered the top job when he wasn't ready. For me he needed a number of years running the academy or reserves. As it is, his good name and reputation is being damaged.

The natural cat call is to sack the coach. There however lies a problem with this. RFL rules pretty much rule out the signing of an Australasian coach unless they meet the following criteria.

1. head coach of a National team of grade 1 standard eg Australia, New Zealand, GB/England
2.Head coach of State of Origin
3. Head coach NRL first grade.

Link:media.therfl.co.uk/docs/RFL%20GBE%20requirements%202015%20-%20Approved%2001.12.14.pdf

Every single British club has now got a domestic coach. The salary requirements of coaches who meet the above standard are way beyond what British clubs can meet. Its why big clubs like Saints/Leeds/Wigan have Brits in charge, its why we may have to stick it out with KC and give him time to learn.

For anyone shouting out about Darryl Powell I would say yes he has improved Castleford. However he was previously at a big club Leeds and was sacked for not being upto scratch. He would improve on what is currently on offer at Saints, however he is not IMO of the required standard.

Finally, has Longy left the club? He used to sit next to KC, but ive not noticed him sat there recently.

Sat next to him last night. I hear he had money on Warrington by 18.

Which means he was sat amongst the fans, not in the club officials area?

It would have been an absolute rout had Wire not declared at 26 points. Everytime they got near our line they scored.

He's looking more and more out of his depth with each passing week. And his post-match comments are always embarrassing.


Get rid...NOW.

I said at the very beginning of the season that KC needed a mentor in the same way that Salford is operating. Its a pity our season was not written off much earlier, we could have got Brian Smith here on a "coaching holiday" and sent KC over to OZ to work as a temporary assistant with a NRL club.
Another option was to bring Daniel Anderson over here to work alongside him, KC now appears to be a self appointed coach guru who is trapped in his own dogmatic ideology and won't admit his projects are damaging the club.

A lot of criticism needs to fall on the players as well despite the difficult environment, they are professionals and should be doing the basics right despite the poor form, last night they were just 17 individuals with no team spirit and leadership.

Final question, in the absence of proven coach availability could Wellens do a better job than KC or replace Sean Long.

A well considered post. But I'll disagree on Powell. He had the same issue at Leeds. He was thrown in far to early and then had to go learn his trade the hard way. Cunningham should have had to go and do the same rather than taking on a top job as his first head coach role.

Powell now is a different coach from Powell 15 years ago.

I agree that ideally KC should have had an "old head" to mentor him and provide a shoulder to lean on when things get tough. As it is he has been thrown in at the deep end and been told to sink or swim. His job is being made harder by us fans now getting poles and pushing him under the water trying to drown him.

The RFL own rules are worded so as to make employing oversees mentors difficult.

Here are some key points to consider from the RFLs own documents:

"As a club can only have one head coach any applications for other head coaches will not be endorsed. Endorsements will not be issued for assistant coaches or for player/coaches."

"The candidate has been in post or in an equivalent post for at least three years (where a coach has been out of post for more than 12 months it is exceeding likely that an application would fail"

"The club has provided the RFL panel with a list of British candidates who were considered for the post and gives brief reasons for not appointing from that list"

"The club provides a copy of the press release or other means by which it has notified the UK market that the vacancy exists"

Now Daniel Anderson is a name that crops up, however there is a big problem re this and it is his suspension from the NRL due to shenanigans at Parramatta. This is currently with the Supreme Court in Australia. So until that is sorted one way or the other I doubt Saints could do anything. There is also the very important point that Anderson may not want to come to the UK.

Appointing Brian Smith would be akin to getting Sean McCrae back at the club, at least McCrae won things.

The only person we could go for is Tim Sheens, but he might be happy at Salford.

I can't understand why greenwood didn't start for you, he always looks good when I see him play. Also last time you played us Fages was brilliant, yet last night the ball ended up in Wilkins hands on your last tackles far too often. Even in his favoured position I think he's hugely overrated and potentially (no idea what he earns) a waste of your cap space.

Wilkin shouldn't be anywhere near playing first choice yet he's captain. This simple statement confirms what a mess we're in

Daniel Anderson was successful at Saints in 06 with the best side that we have ever had. He failed to win the GF the following year with anther excellent Saints side. I see no reason to think that he would be successful with the current crop of players, he has been pretty anonymous in all of his other appointments, other than a brief successful spell at Auckland prior to them sacking him.

How have bradford managed to employ rohan smith if these are the rules?

Anderson put defensive structures in place at saints and prior to coming here was renowned for developing young players. Our attack was very much the quality of players we managed to accrue to form a formidable team.

The bedrock of a good successful teams we know is solid defence, in 2006 Anderson finally saw his rewards and I remember quite well in certain defensive sets the opposition actually made negative progress, what's alarming is that Cunningham, Long, Wellens and Sculthorpe knew how these structures worked but we have not appeared to emulate it into the present game.

KC likes his team to win the "middle" which in attack means we don't get the ball away from the ruck area until the 4th tackle, in defence his "middle" is too compact and slow so the opposition quickly go out wide forcing us into a sliding defence and expose one on one situations which we are pretty abysmal at.

Also whoever is our defensive coach (supposingly Sean Long) should have been binned off months ago, KC is nearly always chasing the game with players who don't have the energy because they have been over stretched in defence.