It does seem to me that there is a battle on at Saints. And quite frankly I don't want the players to win again and face another year of slow and steady, with Lance back at 6, etc etc etc.

If players know something is not right in their coaching they should be able to have some input. Daniel Anderson agreed to change his tactics at the request of the players and Brown was clearly shown by the Huddersfield players they didn't agree with his methods.

This is refreshing.

Until now Brown has been some sort of sacred cow and to criticise him meant being slaaged off on here. The players actually tried their best which without structure and a game plan, meant a somewhat plucky but inveitable defeat.

Attack - was dreadful; no planned moves, no imagination, no invention and no dummy runners - no chance.

Midfield - we actually did OK the pack was quite good and the metreage showed that.

Defence - was appalling. Like last week, we got the numbers completely wrong. Whoever is supposed to organise the defence (Wello?) didn't do it. Same last week agaiinst wire every time they attacked we were short on whichever side . Even the sky mob (John Wells) spotted that. Why couldn't Brown.

GOB (who can be excused as first game, but doesn't look like a game changer), HiHo looked dreadful again as did Meli who nees more caffine. Wilkin looked out of place and Wello blew hot and cold as did Jones.

It's time people stopped making excuses for Brown. I've been saying this for weeks - he is tactically naive and sticks with his own "sacred cows".

It's the same squad as last year which finished 3rd. Only difference is Turner and Manu have replaced Shenton.

What have you done with Manu, he looks really overweight and unfit, watching him last night he did one run then had his hands of his hips catching his breath.

On the bright side we no longer worry about him being poached by the NRL or leaving half way through his contract

I'm fine with critisism of the coach, but lets not kid ourselves, there are factions within Saints and Saints Fans who wanted him out before he set foot over the door.

Because they thought Rush/ Cunningham / Royce should be in charge.

When the arguement goes, we lost so sack the coach, then I take nothing from those posts as they are so heavily biased they may as well have come from opposition fans.

He is a bit of a fiddler and that does have it's benefits, but it also has it's draw backs. His tinkering started with the halves, then went to the backs, then to the pack. But now he has gone back to tinkering with the halves. Now our halves are not the best, but that does not mean he needs to keep changing them. Wilkin to 7 was inspired. But then to shift him away from 7 just as GOB comes in was daft.

Same with his signings, they have all 3 been pretty good, and Manu kept it under wraps last night, not throwing wild passes every run. Much better from him. As for Manu being unfit, don't forget we had little of the ball in attacking field when we were 18 - 0 down. So most of the pack were blowing with defence. But they kept making the yards. So credit to them.

Yes it was a loss, but lets not kid ourselves. COmpared to literally day 1, we have improved. Compared to Wire last week we where better. And compared to Leeds we where better.

It's just frustrating that he can't get them on the field ready to go, why it takes till half time to adjust the game plan. But if that game tells me one thing, it's that Lance is only to be used in extreme circumstances. He's played everywhere he can now and does not impress anywhere.


Think back to all our matches in the last 2 years, which one has Lance stood out in????

Wilkin has his haters, but even this year he's put his stamp on 1 or 2 matches, same for Manu, Sia, Roby, Percival, Makinson, TP, Walker, Walmsley, Lomax, Wellens, Meli, Turner.

At some point they have all stepped up and shown their worth. But Lance I draw a blank as to when he has iimpressed at all.

We're trying to turn him into a prop, didn't you know? Every forward who comes to Saints has to be a prop.

Sorry, but it is you who is kidding yourself! We are NOT better! Aside from our first game, most of our losses have been close and we have been seeing little bits of something good in all our matches. Then Brown moves everyone around, they don't know what they are doing or who they are doing it with and we lose again.

His tinkering is destroying any chance we have of winning a bloody game for heaven's sake. It isn't just a little aside. It's central to our problems. Why break up a really promising partnership on our left edge just to accommodate Meli? Ridiculous. Why change around the whole of the halfback scenario (our 10th change, and not even injuries to excuse it) just to accommodate O'Brien? Ludicrous.

The decision to drop Ashe for O'Brien was the right call.

According to Brown, he's witnessed some of our best play of the season in second half. Don't know what game he was watching. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3064

According to Brown, he's witnessed some of our best play of the season in second half. Don't know what game he was watching. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3064

Oh yes, but he didn't need to shunt Turner into the halves and then change the backline all around on the back of that did he?

Quote ="The Chief"According to Brown, he's witnessed some of our best play of the season in second half. Don't know what game he was watching. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3064'" Brown is just talking BS, as usual.

Quote ="The Chief"According to Brown, he's witnessed some of our best play of the season in second half. Don't know what game he was watching. www.saintsrlfc.com/news/page/3064'" Brown is just talking BS, as usual.

When all is said and done we looked utterly clueless with the ball at times (unsurprising given we had a new halves partnership, one of whom had been at the club a matter of days), but we lost by 9 points away to potential GF winners without Lomax and with Roby getting himself back from injury.

Our pack did well and I think there were positives to take from the game, we will improve from here without doubt.

Our pack did indeed do well, but the bit about improvement? We said that after the Leeds match three weeks ago and then got beaten twice subsequently.

I want him to know what he's doing, but like many of you, the doubt is starting to eclipse the optimism.

I'm holding onto the theory that he's tried to break us down in order to build us up, that the constant swapping of position is for our backs to learn to play with their heads up to suit what's in front of them, rather than rely just on robotic moves.
Last year Mike Rush took the common sense, no risk approach and, whilst it got us so far, we were obviously short of being a champion side. Perhaps Browns techniques are working on us from such a base level, that our players are having to redefine everything they thought they knew about playing the game. Maybe this is why motivation amongst the elder statesmen has been so poor - that those stuck in their ways are failing to embrace a new approach?

Brown, however, seems to be making it as hard as possible for us to stay positive. Forget last night. That match reminded me of the semi final we last to Wigan a couple of seasons ago under Royce and we finished that season OK. That match in itself isn't awful, but we've lost what 7 of the last 8? That includes a towelling at home to Widnes. Widnes for goodness sake!
Everyweek we are turning out a team with a fair number of very good players and being consistantly turned over by teams that play with more enthusiasm and motivation, more committed defense, a slicker passing game and a better kicking game. Every week.
His selections are baffling, dropping Makinson, loaning Howarth, moving Turner, persisting with Wellens.
Our defense out wide is crap.
Our ball handling and wide moves are crap.
We look like ing amatures.

It did. That's one of the most frustrating things. Half the team is doing OK, the other half would (you'd like to think) have the ability to do well if only they're pointed in something resembling the right direction.

You should know

I could picture you getting angrier and angrier the further you got into that post.

I was thinking that myself while I was reading it.

A well coached team is a team where each individual knows their role which is simplified with clear instructions.
A well coached team also has all players playing as a team with plans and goals.
A good coach can also improve and motivate his players, unfortunately none of the above apply at Saints under Nathan Brown.

Saints have several International players, something is drastically wrong and it starts at the top.

As many Giants fans said after last night, Brown is making the same stubborn errors he made at Huddersfield!

Yes I know our coach is currently hopeless at London, but Saints deserve better, I will never forget those words "I will search the world for the best coach" and he went to Huddersfield?

The only real difference between last night and the Leeds game is that Hudds defended better, whereas Leeds' defence was shambolic (as I said at the time when people were getting carried away).