On the subject of wello, he looks a very pale shadow of the player he was. I just hope fans remember the man of steel version and not this version

He is tarnishing his legacy , certainly for newer fans who've only ever seen the crap version of Wello.

He was anonymous last night. Literally just a warm body on the pitch, except for that break he made in the second half.

I'd be delighted if that were true, but can't see it happening; Jonny's been a Saints fan since he was a little lad playing for OSJ. I think he'll stay loyal to you.

Also 11,400 against Widnes, I seam to recall thinking that last year we'd be hoping to get between 14,000 to a sell out.

I maybe wrong but 11,400 does not seam to different to playing Widnes at KR. Don't get me wrong we needed the move, but it does seam people are now voting with their feet.

We actually had people sat around us who walked out just after half time. These are older fans too, not your run of the mill bandwagon jumpers. Rightly or wrongly, they said they couldn't stand to watch it any longer.

I fear come the end of the season, if the club doesn't do some PR work and damage limitation soon, people could start questioning whether they are getting value for money. The silence isnt doing the club any favours IMO.

One guy was hung over the dugout as the players were walking off the pitch. Lets just say he was questioning some individuals about their performances and stating that he pays hard earned money to watch a bit of effort. One of the high paid under performing imports looked at him, laughed in his face and walked off. Whilst I know the individual in question was venting his frustration, but the reaction of the player should have been to ignore it, the message he conveyed was the wrong one IMO.

The attendances have been the same all season though. We've consistently been down between 2,000 and 3,000 on last season. I rather think 2012 was the blip; people were curious about the new stadium.

Spot-on, that Saints team should have been good enough to turn Widnes over. There are major issues behind the scenes.

I think we can guess which overpaid import you refer to

Came very close to cutting up my season ticket up last night more in anger rather than frustration or dissapointment.
Far too many games this year were the players attitude is the worse I,ve seen since I,ve supporting the saints over the decades.
All the players with the exception of Walmsley, Thompson and Gardner couldn,t be bothered last night.
If they don,t show any passion for the saints shirt and keep coming up with this can,t be bothered attitude then Ill pack in and watch amateur rugby instead.

It is the imports who are really letting us down. They seem to have made a pact that they are just not interested. They are not that bad are they? I must say it is affecting the walk up crowd now. 11k against our closest rivals is poor

I would 100% let Laffranchi, Perry and TP go. They are off contract and don't deserve new deals.

The other import is Hohaia, we might have trouble getting shut of him. I can't see any NRL side paying the money we are and giving him a long deal like we did.

I'd consider keeping TP if he was a bench player but we'd need to bring in two good hard working props to play along side him

About 3 weeks into the season I was talking to one of the younger Saints players and he told me that let's just say a strong percentage of the team can't motivate themselves to play for Nathan Brown, as none of them want him in charge. They all wanted Cunningham to get the job. You've shown what you can do when you want to play, against us at the HJ for example. And I think it is embarrassing for your club the way a lot of your older players are performing. They're paid to play rugby not decide who is in charge and I can see it continuing until Brown gets the sack

Or maybe these senior players can't motivate themselves because Brown won't give them new deals.

A really useful point about Kez is he a help or a hindrance around the place I suppose time will tell

If they can't be bothered playing whilst they're still under contract it's not going to earn them a new one.

What is KC,s official capacity is he defence coach or conditioner or both. I ask because we have one of the laziest defences in superleague and we seem to the unfittest side in the competition.

For me the problem last night
wasn't the fact we lost
wasn't the fact we have injuries
wasn't the fact that we were playing a supposedly weaker team
wasn't the fact we had lots of rookies in the team
it was the fact that as a collective the Saints team didn't show that they care, I saw very few players getting angry or frustrated. I want any player that puts on the red vee to give everything they can. If they are playing crap or brilliant that's all I ask (I am happy to leave the picking of players on performance or need to the coach) just show me that you care that we are losing (or winning) and you want to do something about it. I expect this type of attitude from players at all Rugby teams - for me it is one of the great differentiators between Rugby and Wendyball.

Last night I didn't see anything like enough examples of this I don't give 2 s what the reason is behind this, if its the coaches fault then get his boss to read him the riot act. If its the players playing at silly buggers then they need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask if that is the attitude of a man or a child.

Whatever the reason Saints get it sorted or you will be in danger of damaging this club - perhaps irrevocably.

You cannot let the inmates run the asylum. Regardless of how good the player is, you have to look at the bigger picture.
If you have a garden full of weeds, you don't throw the grass out and keep the weeds.

And stick one of the biggest weeds in a plant pot and pretend it is a sunflower.

KC is supposed to be coaching the forwards. He appears to be failing, with one or two exceptions. I don't know whether he still has his assistant conditioner responsibilities.

If he,s coaching the forwards then he,s responsible for making them soft ed and weak the exact opposite of what he was capable of.
Every seasoned forward has gone backwards with the exception of Sia.

Isn't it? Performance doesn't seem to dictate anything at Saints. I'm sure LMS, for example, could continue with his low tackle but high penalty count every match for the full season and never be dropped even if we had a dozen better young props ready and raring to go.

Well that's true.

i'd send perry, lafaranchi and lance to rochdale or even cumbrian for a couple of months, let them get mardy and quit