Wheeler looked poor in general but especially in defence. Turner at 3 and Jones at 4 would probably give us a better balance

I've been like a broken record for past 3 years banging on about the fact we've not had two centres and only rely on one centre.

Looks like I was correct when I said it will come back to bite us as shenton is rubbish so we've effectively playing with no centres now.

Me and another poster on here have banged on and on about how poor our recruitment has been for past 4 years and now it's showing exactly what weve been saying.

McManus has been a spin doctor with the whole youth thing and most believed him. The real truth is we tried to do it on the cheap and it's back fired!

Jones is an 18 year old kid - he statistically has no better than a 1-in-5 chance (and probably less than that) of making it to the top level in SL. To commit to him as one of our first choice 3/4s next season would be lunacy beyond the limits of even some of the numpties who post on here. Either we have to keep Shenton after all, find someone else (and God knows who's available) to come in at #3, take a massive risk on Wheeler as first choice, or an absolutely [iinsane[/i risk on Jones as #3. I'll take option 2 if it's available please - otherwise another season of Shenton is by far the best/least risky alternative.

Not sure I agree with you. Jones looks physically capable now , some players develop quicker than others. Centre is his natural position. If we let Shenton go we'll bring someone in to take the 3 shirt , I presume that is Turner. Wheeler is under contract so I imagine he will be competing for the left centre with Jones

I don't care how good Jones has looked so far - history shows that very few good kids his age and talent level ultimately make it. Maybe if he had freakish talent a la Newlove at the same point in his career then it might be worth putting all our eggs in his basket as it were, but he's (understandably) looked little better than solid so far to date. We'll likely be in trouble if we're relying on him and Wheeler to spell #3 next season.

From a neutrel point of view on the limited times ive seen saints.

1. Hohaia is stealing a living.
2. Wheeler is no centre, not sure he's even a rugby league player.
3. Shenton, get shut asap, he'll probably be on decent wages as well.
4. Laffranchi, don't rate him one bit, seems slow and rarely breaks a tackle.
5. Wilkin, best days are behind him, same for Flannery, Wellens, Gardner and Meli.

So - at what point do you? After five good games? Or is it fifty? Come to think of it - at what POINT do you start seeing Shenton for what he is? And don't give me this [i"after he's made a pig's ear of a fully fit season with the ball given to him whenever he desires and always in space"[/i nonsense because we could wait until hell freezes over for such to arrive.

[uNOT WHEN HE'S AN 18 YEAR OLD KID!!!!![/u How many good 18 year old kids make it, hmmmm? Answer me that question. What are the odds of Jones being a top SL player in 5 years' time?

[uYOU CAN'T BUILD A TEAM AROUND 18 YEAR OLDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/u

Jeebus ****ing H. Christ......

AND I SEE SHENTON AS [uEXACTLY[/u WHAT HE IS YOU ONE-EYED ****ING NUMPTY FOOL!!! i.e. the best of a bad bunch of options.

From being at the game today the only thing i could think of in watching Saints was the lack of pace they have in the team, theres maybe only wheeler and lomax who i could see making a break and finishing off a try if he was to make a break, and then in terms of the forwards i noticed someone mentioned laffranchi , in all honesty i hadnt realised he was playing, i am quite surprised Saints have kept Foster in the Reserves for so long though. The way Carmont made himself look like Usain Bolt for his 70m try was poor from a Saints point of view

Who said anything about "top"? I didn't. Of course, he might turn out to be such - but right now I'd gladly settle for a COMPETENT SL player - and the odds are a hell of a lot higher for that.



Are you delirious? I'm talking about Shenton and Jones. The former is failing miserably. If he were a horse he'd probably be halfway to Grannox by now. I haven't mentioned anything about "building teams about youngsters" - other than we should definitely make Gaskell (the only tactically minded half back at the club) the focal point of our attack. If you have a better suggestion - I'm all ears.



Have you finished your little temper tantrum. Want your dummy back?

Ok we got taken apart by Wigan. We are behind Wigan by someway. Not one of those 3 games have been close. Unlike last year when we lost and drew with wigan in 3 games but they where closer.

Having said that I am not panicing, yes Wigan took us apart and yes we are unlikely to win anything, but the season is also about playing other teams and we can compete with others.

Taking all that as said,

Lance did less today and it's clear the kicking duties have been removed to help him do less.
Wheeler well he does have talent, but in terms of a dependable centre to turn up match after match, for me Jones is winning the contest for that centre shirt unless we are signing 2 centres.
I'm taking as written that Meli, Shenton and probably Wellens will move on or retire, Wellens does offer himself up to run the lines we need, but is now getting caught in defense and attack.

Wigan were very good and for an extended period we had no ball, but and it's a big but far more worrying was Wigan being a man less for 20 - 30 minutes and they score against us and we struggle to pass them. A decent half would have torn them a new one, we may still have lost but it should have been a closer finish.

The forwards once again take most of the credit, what little there was to give out at the end. But our weakest defense and our weakest attacking point all come from the backs.

I've no doubt that Gaskell will not get picked next week and we'll perform alot better against Hull FC. In fact we may go on a decent run, but come the end we'll be reminded once again that the forwards and Roby are not enough against better defenses. With backs leaking around both edges and providing little threat in attack, we are playing with half a team. The fact that half of the team can front up and take on most teams gives me hope for the future.

My thoughts exactly.
Rush doesnt come across well in interviews (in fact im starting to dislike the guy), and I think it will be good someone coming in from the outside to shake things up.

Funny thing is, some people on here actually though that Wilkin was better than Sculthorpe a few years back (around the time of the CC final broken nose) which shows how much people can get carried away with a players ability. How anyone came to such a ridiculous opinion I'll never know.

To be fair to Wilkin, he did play very well that season. And by that time Scully was shot.

Wind your neck in. Another outburst like that and you can go in the sin-bin.

He certainly did. But I'm sure most can agree that he was never even close to lacing Sculthorpe boots in when Scully was in his prime, yet it didn't stop many expecting Wilkin to become/thinking he already was a superior player. Fans tend to get carried away, in both positive and negative situations.

To be honest, I think Wilkin has never really gotten over being used as the dreaded "utility" player for five seasons. Had he been given the loose forward spot from the start I think he would have been more effective.

Saints' fans more than most methinks. Expectations should always be high at any club wanting to be competitive, if not moreso at clubs like Saints. However that expectation needs to be realistic, unfortunately after the sustained period of success we have achieved throughout the Superleague era many of us have grown over-complacent believing it our automatic right to reach every final, and "play like we did under Millward" in every game, season in season out.

Carmont left Gardner for dead, despite only having maybe 2 or 3 steps start on him. He just looked totally disinterested in chasing that break down.

I don't think we'd lose anything by putting Wellens in at centre in place of Shenton.

Lance
Makinson
Wellens
Jones
Meli
Lomax
Gaskell

Shenton and Wheeler to the reserves to wait for their chance after stinking the Etihad out big time.

I'm not sure what Wellens in the centre can offer - other than making an already painfully slow back line even slower. It would be embarrassing watching him attempt to keep up with Makinson on a break out of the fullback position.

On the other hand, he would be the ideal bench man, capable of deputising in all but one position - prop. He'd certainly give us far more options than someone such as Wheeler.

Dropping Wello is much needed, not only because he's now failing, but to give his eventual replacement the chance to get some game time when the pressure is off. This season is a write off, with interim coaches and us in mid table, it's the perfect opportunity to look longer term now. Makinson or Lomax or whoever to fullback has to be a priority.

I don't think wello can play centre, he's far to slow.

To be honest, I'd be tempted to start Foster at centre before Wellens. He's lacking in size - but he does have the centre's instinct - good hands, knows how to put a winger away etc. At this moment Wheeler's struggling to put away his tea.

But can catch the ball, tackle and pass - all of which our current centres couldn't do on Sunday.