What do you want me to say? That EM made a mistake hiring him? I would think that a cursory look at any of my posts about Simmons would confirm that I think that to be the case.



Perhaps a dozen or so trophies since he took over might have something to do with it?

The players he signed running up to our most successful ever season in 2006 did carry a ball, did kick goals, did score tries. Vinnie Anderson, Jamie Lyon, Jason Cayless, Leon Pryce, Jon Wilkin, Willie Talau, Lee Gilmour, Jason Hooper, Maurie etc. You talk as if he just had to ride into town and watch the trophies pile up, the actual truth is we remained at the top despite losing players like Iro, Hoppe, Joynt, Martyn, Newlove, Sullivan etc. Yes he had a core of very, very good players, but 3 or 4 top players alone don't win trophies - look at some of the big spending Wigan sides of SL era to see that.

He took over in 2001 and 11 years later we've made the last 6 GFs. Mistakes may have been made in the last couple of years, but whatever mistakes have been made are being massively blown out of proportion by the comical coaching of the current squad.

Success last week doesn't not mean success next. Yes, we won plenty of trophies. But ALMOST ALL were directly attributable to Martyn, Sculthorpe, Cunningham, Long, Newlove, Iro and a couple of others. Now, how many of those players did McManus sign?

A dozen trophies is meaningless if you don't show the trend. And the trend has been downwards for a number of years.



- A flop.

- Good signing.

- A waste of money.

- Never truly lived up to his potential, but did play well earlier in his career.

- Did McManus sign Wilkin? In any case he certainly doesn't warrant the contract he was given recently.

- Good players. Both were let go before we had replacements, BTW.

- Hooper was ok. Played well for a season but was injured too often to be effective. Maurie was a good value buy - but he was never anything more than a 3rd/4th prop at Saints.



3 or 4 top players don't win trophies on their own. But put Newlove, Martyn, Long, Cunningham and Scully in any mid-table side and I guarantee you success. Let us not be so pompous as to think we didn't buy success. We did. Yes, there was a lot of good coaching at work, also. But without transfer-busting deals to the likes of Newlove, Sculthorpe et al. we would have struggled like anyone else.



This is just ridiculous. Simmons got us to a Grand Final last season with a depleted, inexperienced side. So the only thing you can base your argument on is a run of six games. Yet, by some feat of magic, you manage to claim the mistakes made in those handful of games OUTWEIGH the mistakes made by McManus over the last FIVE OR SIX YEARS!? I really can't take you seriously.

Fair enough, we all have opinions. FWIW, given some of your player appraisals above, the feelings mutual.

I think McManus has done a terrific job at saints with building the stadium and cutting the bank debt but his last two choices of coach have been terrible. I thought potter was bad until we got this current idiot.

On the recruitment side, we went to long not bringing players in (think we went two years without a single signing) when we was losing the likes of newlove, talau, gidley, long, Cunningham, scully etc.

I think we was unlucky last year with the three signings of shenton, LMS and perry as they seemed very good signings at the time but perry got injured, shenton has been average and LMS has been crap.

Its this years recruitment that will be tough to recover from. We've took to overseas spots up with players that have been asked to play out of postion and it's not worked. I know Royce wanted these three players and is good mates with two of them.

This years recruitment is crazy and entirly down to Royce Simmons and I'm shocked Macmanus allowed him to sign laffranchci and lance to play out of postion.

We are desperate to halfback and props but no quota spots available so god knows how we will get out this mess!

You referred to recently though, and recently Wire have won two Challenge Cups and a League Leaders Shield whereas we have won zip.

Also, our Chief Exec before he moved on stated quite clearly in the press that we had not spent up to the salary cap this season.

And in addition, there is leeway now for clubs with international players who were brought in from their academy system to spend more than the regulation salary cap so there is some flexibility for Wigan, Wire and Leeds. It applies to us too but only for James Roby this season.

But Warrington didn't win trophies with a dud side AND THEN sign better players. They had already begun and effect followed cause. And they have CONTINUED to recruit well ever since.



Well, that's meaningless without knowing how far below the salary cap we were. In any case, we couldn't use money to recruit overseas stars because we had hit out quota. And McManus has repeatedly - season after season - claimed we are up to or around the cap. If that was true - and I have no evidence to doubt him - we were getting poor value for money. Clearly some players were being lollied way above their pay grade.



I don't see that as being an important issue at this moment. It may be in the future. But it's not giving Wigan and Warrington a colossal advantage over us.

Its not a nice situation to disect, as Saints are in a rut (nothing more, mind).

People can point fingers at the players, but, whilst they may not be a team of world beaters, they are capable of a lot more than thy're currently showing.

Foster's a good example. I was never his biggest fan, but I was very positive about what he could bring to us. He wasn't the fastest or biggest, but he complimented his place kicking by being quite error free. Remember when Stevo gave him MoM after he caught that high ball in the last minute of the derby? For an extended period he looked like a very safe pair of hands, now he looks like he couldn't catch the clap in a toxteth brothel.

Johnny Lomax - young player of the year 2011, looks utterly lost.
Michael Shenton - deserved England centre at cas, hardly gets the ball.
LMS - promising talent gone AWOL.
Josh Perry - Former Aussie prop, struggles with form and fitness.
Laffranchi - Former international with a reknowned proffesional attitude
Tony P - Named in Penrith ALL TIME 17, has been massive for us in the past, only turns in 10 mins a game.
Francis Meli - Like him or loathe him, he's a massive attacking asset, hardly getting a sniff at the moment.

I could go on, but for all these players to be performing below par then there's something fundamentally wrong with the workings of the squad, which is the coach's responsibility, whether its tactics, man management or something else.

There didn't look like a lack of desire or will from the players when they were defending the line late in the game on Saturday, but they're spending half the game wandering around not knowing where they should be or what's coming next.

Mr Big is accountable completely for the appointment of Simmons (which was a gamble many of us highlighted).

Blaming him for recruitment is useless unless you're going to consider fully the availability of players matched with our own financial circumstances and apportion some of the blame with the coaches during those times you're assessing. You can't say "He should have recruited this or this" if those players weren't available, had no interest in coming to Saints or would not have been worth the investment. That's a complex argument right there and requires far more than soundbite analysis.