Utter crap

Urgent warning to anyone who knows mugwump, hide all razor bladesx and rope as this guys on the edge!

Hey, I'm sorry you can't deal with the truth but, you know, the game is tough and there is no place in it for sentiment. You think Meli, Gardner and Flannery are the best possible players we could ever hope for at this time. If that is true the game has officially reached a dead end in terms of player development. We might as well call for the vet now and painlessly put it out of its misery.

No mate your missing my point. I wouldn't have give any of them new deals as I've said all along.

I've been very critical of our recruitment policy over the last few years but we don't know the ins and outs of it.

Ratchford IS a player I think we should have gone for, he's English, skilful and looks very good in the centre but ibtjink the club had wheeler down for that centre spot. They can't predict which players will get injured. We also don't know what money he wanted.

I've banged on about this all year abs I'll say it again. Until we get a proper centre, experienced halfback and another prop I think we will keep our nearly men tag.

Just out of interest, I checked the bookies odds for Saints to win the Grand Final at the start of the season.

2/1 Wigan
10/3 St Helens
10/3 Warrington
9/2 Leeds
10/1 Huddersfield

Just a small point on that tirade. We could not get hoffman or waterhouse or any NRL player from the lower leagues. We have been at total on federation players this year and last. If we were going to sign them for next year . then we could not have kept TP. LOsing TP and Graham in one season would certainly see us out side the top four next year.

I did not want to sign meli last year. But playing him in the centres this year has kept him out of trouble and until the exiles game all our attack went through him.

His viable replacement in Wheeler has been injured far too often to challenge him at the back end of the year. I've not got an arguement with putting Wheeler there next year buthe has to be fit.

We did as the bookies expected then

Aside from beating the team they rated worse than us - yes.

And beating the favourites twice in the play offs and dumping then out.

We couldn't have released Flannery and gone for Waterhouse?? Or released Flannery and gone for ANY NRL player??

Making US the favourites for the final, then.

No we couldnt as flannery is off quota.

Ah yes, I forgot. But this doesn't mean we couldn't go for someone in the lower leagues or attempt to poach someone else's academy prospect. I doubt Flannery is playing for peanuts. To be honest, I'm not particularly bothered by Flannery. I'd rather we had someone else - but at least he isn't a defensive liability or a parasite like Gardner.

Nope.

Its quite simple you can have five players who where not trained in europe.

Flannery and meli are not binded by this as they were already in SL pre the new rules.

So its not as simple as get some one. To get some one we have to lose someone. Its easy to say we dont need lance now but when he was signed we were in a shocking position in the halfbacks. You cant do contracts with hindsight. Who could we get now? If then we have to let sia go next year.

Gardner had been playing impressive this season up to his injury, i think it was the back end of last season his wheels fell off.

by his standards maybe. Makinson is a better winger by a long way now, let alone when he gets more experience. Foster is as good but brings his kicking too. Ade should be our reserve winger next year and i hope his new contract reflects that.

As stated, this doesn't mean we can't go domestic (such as Westerman or Ratchford). The key question is - if Meli, Flannery or Gardner were playing for, say, Widnes - would we show the slightest interest in any of them?



I never mentioned losing Hohaia. Indeed, we are going to need him. As far as I am concerned we are STILL in a dodgy position insofar as the fullback position. Wellens will almost certainly start AGAIN next season - despite being shot for the best part of two, possibly three. If Hohaia is coming to play in the halves who do we have as a bona fide fullback replacement? Makinson is a prospect. But we haven't seen anywhere near enough of him to know for sure. For all we know he could turn out to be the next Leroy Rivett, or Danny Arnold. Foster? Ashe? Is that the sound of a barrel I hear being scraped?

Westernan cost £100,000 and we've not got that kind of money.

Ratchford was a option but I think he's gitca very big deal at Warrington and we can't afford to overspend on players if ge club don't think they warrant the wage demands.

We've been in dire need of a centre since talau went. We are also in need of a prop andva experienced halfback (maybe hohaia is the answer)

Gardner HAS played better this season. But if we are using Gardner's form over the previous four seasons as a metric to judge his absolute worth we're really struggling. At the very least it suggests he was playing for a contract extension and I have no time for that whatsoever. A professional rugby player shouldn't pick and choose the games he puts effort into. It's not conducive to a winning ethos.

I've no idea what money Saints are prepared to spend on a player. Neither have you. McManus and his associates have, in the past, repeatedly stated we are spending up to the cap. If that's the case it should be possible to trim Flannery's wages plus two or three fringe players to take a big bite out of the figure and pay the kid's wages.

You get what you pay for. If Saints want to win Grand Finals it is up to them to find the money.



If we are spending up to the cap then there's no reason we couldn't offer a similar deal. They can't spend MORE than us.

The point I'm making, Maybe saints don't think his contract demand matched his ability and you've got to respect that.

No way are we spending to the cap.

we keep saying this, but we made a cup semi and the grand final so our squad cant be that bad

We are not a bad side but with a centre, halfback and prop we could be a great side.

IMO we are just three quality players off being the wining team again. If wheeler and hohaia fill two of them roles then we will be a better side.

Time will tell.

indeed, i see wheeler as a centre and lance can fill a number of roles too, good times ahead

I wonder how many games we will get out of Wheeler next season? 5 ,10?