I agree, i also thought kyle was a little ahead of tomkins last year and also for the early part of the season as kyle was on fire but tomkins then raised the bar.

Sam tomkins was the best english player in super league last year by a mile.

I don't personally like Sam Tomkins. However, there is no way I could possibly knock his talent as a Rugby League player. I don't think he's there yet as he has things to learn, but there is no doubt that he will be a world class player in years to come.

Why? Have you ever met him?

About sums it up!!



Only problem is we get talent like Eastmond and Tomkins and then look to put them down at every chance! Tomkins is awesome and when he is on form like last night he can be virtually unplayable!
As Cunningham was in his prime!

I was referring to his on-field personna. Not his social attributes.

He strikes me as a typical (or stereotypical?) halfback. He's sly, sneaky, a pain in the backside and tough as old boots. Should be good for many years to come.

While there is no doubting Eastmonds ability, he simply doesn't have a 1/4 of the heart Tomkins has. Tomkins takes shlt loads and gets up everytime. When things go Saints way Eastmond is a cracking player. I just doubt he has the heart to play at the top and thus will never be fit to lace Tomkins boots.

FWIW Wellens was class yesterday for you. Had that break he made been 2-3 years ago I reckon he probably would have finished it and why Potter has let Matty Smith go is beyond me

I can see why they've let Matty Smith go, I think one of the reasons why he made such an impact coming back was because they'd had Wilkin in the halves for a while.

I'd rather have Lomax or Eastmond every day of the week.


Wellens is always class imo, if he had pace he would have been truly world class.

Fair enough - you see your team every week.

Surely that can't be levied at Potter?

For an outgoing coach, how much (if any) control would he have over the 2011 squad?

Wigan fan mate.....

Huh?

Matty made such an impact because his kicking was fabulous against Warrington and our whole team that night played as one, something we haven't seen much of this season (and we haven't seen anything of a kicking game for years).

Matty Smith has only played at Superleague level consistently for one season: while at Salford. Prior to Saturday he had never played in a Saints-Wigan derby before and he had never played in a final before. That lad had a huge amount of pressure on him and he was never, ever going to meet the expectations created by his great game against Warrington. But even though his kicking in the first half was poor, he still worked hard in both defence and attack, he made the initial break for Dixon's try and he passed to Wilkin who, if he'd not dropped the ball, would have scored another try. He also kicked one great kick in the second half. But my own thoughts are that the occasion was just too much for him to handle with so little experience and such a genuine desire to work hard for his club, all the dumb changes made to the lineup by Potter complicating matters for him and everyone else.

However, it wasn't his fault we were beaten and I certainly wish he had been kept on by Saints.

I would imagine the coach is consulted, wouldn't you? Presumably as the 'expert opinion' on who was worth keeping at the club and who wasn't.

He's a player I've never really rated but I would say he would have been a better "keep" than Scott Moore.

Probably, but if McManus was sitting down planning for next season, surely your new coach would have had a say. After all, it'll be him who'll have to work with the players day in, day out.

Sorry - re read your post. The "They've" part should have been a give away really

True. But his contract was up this season so I would imagine there was pressure to make a decision about him, even though Saints didn't actually bother contacting him while he was out on loan.

I think Matty Smith would grow as a player if he just had some consistency in his first grade experience. Even in the few weeks he has been with us, he has been messed about, with Kyle out of the team then in it then out of it, so he wasn't able to build up any confidence going towards the Grand Final. It was a big ask for him to be the 7 in his first derby at his first grand final for a team who didn't actually want him. I'm well impressed by his courage in taking it on and he certainly showed us what he is capable of against Warrington. He was a joy to watch.

Can't see that at all. The reason why is between them Moore has a rugby brain and Smith doesn't in the same way that Tomkins has and Long hadn't at the same age. If Moore can get rid of his handling errors he will be a useful squad player. If he finds a bit more inside of himself he could even become a key player in the way that we're still waiting for Wilkin to do. A lot of it is about consistency with these good players whereas Smith may have a more consistent game it is only occasionally that it rises to grade B or above. That's not good enough level of performance for us to maintain our title challenges.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's played very well since he came back. But I think his performances have been highlighted more than they would normally as you haven't had a fit Eastmond for quite a while.

Pryce is a different type of HB in that he's never going to control the game etc etc.

My point was that if you went from having a fully firing Eastmond to Matty Smith the week after then it would have been less of a noticable impact than going from Wilkin to Smith.

Would you rather have Eastmond, Lomax or Smith?

Just to emphasise the point, Tomkins rattled up twice as many metres as Wello with the ball in his hand. Pace at full back please Royce.

Tomkins is a world class player, hope he carries his club form into the 4 nations. He generally doesnt have one of his better games against us (WIRE)but none the less he is a phenomenal player. I think he is one of them players who could play in most positions and still shine.Going off the subject of Tomkins,Saints dont appear to have any problem with playing out of their skins when playing Wire, maybe Saints see it as their cup final?????

Alternatively, perhaps you make us look like we're playing out of our skins when we're really just average.

Pat Richards played full back when we won at Wigan.

edit - should read the whole thread

It was after that game at our place that Sam moved back to FB I think as Madge dropped Pryce all together and went with a Goulding STomkins Richards back 3 which he has stuck with ever since.

Sam has a rare quality what many players dont have, and its that acceleration of the mark - once he sees a gap it is usually very hard to stop him breaking the line. Our 2nd try on Saturday showed that he saw that gap he wanted to hit, rode the challenge of Lomax and then offloaded and creating a huge hole in your defence.

I hope he can do it for England, but I have a feeling he wont have the same effect as he doesnt have a world class back with him, with the likes of Robinson and Brown not good enough.

Saying that, he is the future of our team and long may that continue.