You're being very generous with him there I think.

Quote ="Saint Simon"Less missed tackles per game than arguably the best fb www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... 9&hp2=1142 1 missed tackle per game is pretty good thanks '" Why let facts get in the way of a demented argument? We (and Ade) deffo missed Gidley last night though. And I thought Wello should have had stopped one of their try scorers.

Quote ="Saint Simon"Less missed tackles per game than arguably the best fb www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... 9&hp2=1142 1 missed tackle per game is pretty good thanks '" Why let facts get in the way of a demented argument? We (and Ade) deffo missed Gidley last night though. And I thought Wello should have had stopped one of their try scorers.

We missed gid's defence more than his attack

St Helens are a team full of average players, who are only made to look good by ermmm, the other average players around them. This is a FACT.

I mean lets be honest here, fans of random mid table teams like Wigan and Hull KR would know what average players look like, so their opinions should be counted as FACT

Gardner the turnstyle.

We got beat so what so did leeds no harm done, better to get beat this week than next against a really poor side.

Idiot.

Aaawwwww did he say bad words against your team.

gardner should be able to play without gidley there if he cant then we have a huge problem but gidley is a world class player and i look up to this lad me

Ade Gardener is an okay winger. He only looks good because he's played outside two amazing centres in Lyon and Gidley. Last night showed how much improving needs to be done on his part.

Definately, looked lost without gidley last night. It seems like he needs guidance at times.

He needs something alright.

Hello Rafa.

He cannot solely be blamed for many of the errors in defence down his side. The defence only operates when everyone does their job, Gardner himself hasn't missed a great deal of tackles. Last night actually having a centre may well have helped him rather than a walkabout Gilmour who seemed to be more interested in attacking up the middle.

At one point I wondered whether Gilmour had been shifted inside and Flannery put out wide, until Gilmour eventually got back into position.

A fair point well put.

I never said he should be.
But he's not a kid, by now he should have gained the experience needed to defend well, even when he doesnt have Gidley there.

So, does he stick on his man and let the centre run past him as Gilmour has gone walkabout, or does he come inside and allow the winger to go past him as happened last night?

Yes he makes mistakes defensively, however he's the easy target for blame as he's the last man. The amount of times he was left 2 or 3 on one was poor last night. Is it his fault that he doesn't pick the right man every time?

Gotta say i agree with this.

This season, Gardner has been a bit of a let down defensively, IMO. He seems to be making an awful lot of incorrect decisions that he wasn't making last season. He comes flying in, leaving his opposite wing man with no-one to beat. Needs sorting as soon as possible.

His flying dive nowhere near the Bradford Try was quality!...

They do have voices though, and if you have an overlap on one side, then you open your mouth and get players to slide across.

It's about reading the game.

I think you're missing my point.
I'm in no way blaming Ade soley for our loss last night. The whole team was a shambes, but we did see Ade's weaknesses exposed and that needs addressing, along with the weakenesses of the whole squad.

A serious question, ( I know they are usually few and far between)

Have other clubs looked at Saints defensive pattern and seen that they defend "narrow"

It would appear that they do leave room on the outside and invite opposition to have a go at them on the outside.

Merely an observation.

I think our defence has gone down this year, doesnt seem to have the same cohesion as last year. That said Gidley's defence is underrated and we missed him out wide

That and our penalty quota rising considerably are the two aspects of Slick Mick's leadership I was seriously worried about, and with good reason it would seem.

Agreed