To an extent.

But I'm aware from more professional sources that these investigations have been under way for some time, and of the approach HMRC is taking. They started with soccer and have now widened it out.

Anyone else chuckle at this bit?

Wouldn't there be a required burden of proof that it was a deliberate act?

Read Dave O post about half way down page 4. It gives a reasonable explanation.




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Indeed, this is not new and has been ongoing for a good 6 months or so. IIRC it started from the divorce proceedings of Ray Parlour.

I can't see it affecting the cap retrospectively as it was accepted at the time, however I wonder if it will cause problems for ongoing contracts? Though the removal of NICs from the cap calculations will reduce the impact of it. Given that it's been common knowledge for a while, I'd have expected most clubs to have phased this out.

If it is in line with the Ray Parlour "agreement" then it may not be only overseas players who are affected.

Of note is the following statement in the article

At least 10 of the 14 Super League clubs are thought to be affected

Now safe to say we can take away Catalans as French
Celtic as only been in existance for 3 years and started out from a low base.So they wont be impacted.

So that leaves 2 clubs who havent probably used this tax saving method.

I would suggest the two other clubs are likely to be Salford and Castleford due to fact that until recently they were lower division clubs and therefore limited in the overseas signings they could make.

I can only assume that the interest shown in Saints by fans of other clubs is nothing short of trolling. As it fails to take into account the fact that Saints have consistently run with a smaller overseas player pool than other clubs, and this year are running significantly below the cap level.

But even if they've all done it it still does not make it correct, and there's just as big a discussion on the Wigan and Leeds boards with fans of other clubs having their say.

I don't see that as trolling.

It doesn't just affect overseas players though, plenty of UK born players in other sports have taken advantage of this loophole.

I must admit that I would quite enjoy seeing the self righteous Mr. Perfect Hetherington squirm a little.


If that's trolling, then I'm guilty as charged, and yes, I have said the same on the Leeds board.

I can't wait until you lot are implicated in it, then we'll see squirming

Dont be daft, Leeds can do no wrong

If we are then look what I said in reply to the Chair Makers post.

As far as I am aware it did not happen under the Whelan / Mo administration, as I know it was mentioned at a shareholders meeting three or four years ago.

Whether it has changed under the new regime I don't know.

Mo and Whelan two men of their word

HMRC see it as evasion not a loophole. And as I understand it the reason why its concentrating on overseas players is that you combine it with the "Singapore Parachute" so that the overseas player becomes entitled to the money when he is no longer subject to UK tax but before he becomes subject to tax in his home country - meaning a loss to the UK Revenue, since the income was earned whilst the player was subject to UK tax. So goes the argument, anyway.

Talk in the game for ages was that Saints were one of the clubs making particular use of this device - anecdotal, and time will tell - obviously. I think people who look to Saints also point to Saints (and others, like Wire) appearing to get more bang for their bucks out of the salary cap than some other clubs - that's obviously purely subjective. If indeed CM is right and Saints are running below the "salary cap" this year, again this might be in anticipation of the grossing-up of image rights payments being brought intot he cap spend?

Only those close to the detail will know, and its all speculation at that point - especially from the hack, although my understanding is he's not a million lmiles out.

Exactly! The original bastions of morals and integrity.

Saints allegedly running under the cap this year, may as you say be in anticipation of possible charges, it was something i had myself mulled over when i heard about the possible change in tax rules. It may also however be the club tightening its purse strings due to the recession, or in anticipation of pay rises due to young players getting salary boosts.

My personal suspicion is that clubs with large overseas contingents are likely to be hit hardest. Especially if those clubs are running upto the cap limit. Quins for example may be in big trouble.
Saints have had a relatively small number of overseas players since 2005, some like Faasavalu and Talau have made the UK their home.

All seems pretty reasonable. tbh, I always suspected that the clubs particularly at risk were the ones with the overseas superstars who would take up a disproportionate chunk of cap space - the odd ones at Saints and Leeds obviously, but I always assumed Wire were most exposed especially after they gazumped us for Matt King. They seemed to have denied being involved over the hill at the Piedome a few years ago. If Quins HAVE used this device extensively, then I agree they could be in serious trouble - never really considered fully the possible impact there. Its all Ifs though right now, although I'd love to know why Wilson chose now to stir the pot.

Where it affects HIS money yes.

They've been looking at overseas accounts for UK residents for a good while now, they started with the big banks and have now seemingly progressed onto smaller ones.

The reason why I find it hard to believe that they are chasing overseas players more is that they'd be far harder to chase down for money, added to the fact that they really aren't bothered if a player has evaded tax in Australia (for example), only in the UK tax.

Apparently Wigan Athletic have been probed in regard to this, what the result was is not known though.

Well,
You only know what you know, and know what you don't know.
Sometimes you don't know what you know, and don't know what you don't know.

You know what I mean.

Those dreaded unknown unknowns

You are Donald Rumsfeld and I claim my £5...

They aren't chasing the players.

They are chasing the clubs that paid them, and the PAYE that those clubs allegedly failed to deduct from image rights and similar payments.