The problem here is people don't understand that there is a difference between a leader and a playmaker.

Burns is a halfback and thus no one will have any issues with him CALLING PLAYS.

But this does not mean he has the right to dress down senior Saints players if they make a mistake. Just as James Graham didn't so much as squeak at any of his teammates until he'd EARNED their respect on the field.

Nonsense. As an experienced player in a key position he has every right to give players a rollocking if needs be. There's seemingly only you that doesn't understand this.

If we signed Paul Gallen next week would he not be able to shout at young Luke Thompson or Joe Greenwood until he had "earned" their respect? Rubbish.

How do you know?

How do you know KC hasn't said to him 'you're the guy who controls the plays so you call the shots and if it doesn't go well you do what you gotta do. If that takes bawling someone out then do it'.

How do you know that he hasn't EARNED their respect on the field? You are making a cosmos sized assumption that he hasn't purely on the basis of playing 2 meaningful games but you don't actually know either way do you?

You'd perhaps do well to earn some respect yourself rather than babbling your sanctimonious, better than thou, know it all preachings when you come on here.

If you think - say - a British player with TWO GAMES under his belt for his new club in the NRL will be able to get away with railroading experienced players who might have 5 or 10 hard years under the hood you haven't watched enough NRL.

We're not in the amateur era any more. This is a highly competitive game with not just positions but entire careers at stake.

But we will see. By your rationale guys like Roby and Wilkin will have no problem whatsoever with Travis Burns if he gets in their faces following a mistake this game or next.

[uBut we know he won't[/u. Because Burns is enough of a professional to know new players are under serious scrutiny from their first game.

And no - I wouldn't expect any kid who has spent four or five years in the academy to meekly take stick from Paul Gallen with two games under his belt (not that I'd expect Gallen to give it). The minute you arrive at a new club you are back to zero in terms of achievement. Certainly his teammates aren't likely to give him anything for nothing. Indeed, he could just as easily be the next Bradley Clyde whose stellar reputation amounted to precisely ZERO at Leeds.

It wasn't any old dropped ball, it was right at the beginningof the set and in our half, it was a very simple mistake.

Because it is the very nature of competition.

I don't have a problem with Burns' decision. He was right to make the call. What I'm saying is this DOES NOT mean the experienced lads will kindly take to the Alex Ferguson treatment until he does what James Graham did at the Bulldogs - kerb his natural explosive instincts and keep his head down until his teammates recognise that he's a) not here to bleed money from the club b) not a crock c) not an average player keeping a friend out of the six position etc.

I really don't see why this is so difficult for people to accept.

This is no more true in RL than any walk of life. Achievements DO follow you around and DO command respect.

You're basically saying that it's impossible for a club to buy a leader because he automatically has zero credibility once he moves club? That simply isn't true.

That stuff is for the amateur days. How many "big reputation" players bombed without trace in SL?

If more players had ridden, say, Michael O'Connor from the outset instead of thinking he would win the game every time he touched the ball perhaps he might have PLAYED LIKE Michael O'Connor.

Reputation never made a tackle. Reputation never scored a try.

Professional play is about the HERE and the NOW. Not the past.

If I move companies, can I not go in as a manager? I haven't earnt my way up the corporate chain at that company, so haven't won the respect of my new colleagues?

It might make my career as a consultant awkward ...

LOL. Don't you think this question is better asked on CONSULTANTFANS.COM?

Cool, a hr expert.

So why are group dynamics different in a rugby team compared to any other group working on a project?

You also didn't answer my question.

Absolute nonsense. You are showing a huge lack of understanding.

I'm sure that in any club there will be a small minority of players misguided/arrogant enough to disregard the achievements and leadership qualities of others out of hand.

I really have no idea why you might identify so wholeheartedly with that point of view



I wonder why Tim Sheens is heading to Salford for a while, clearly his input is no more valuable that anyone else at Salford given he's never worked there . . . . .

If you want someone to explain the manifold differences between sport and business find someone else. I've already wasted too much energy on what should be elementary understanding.

You said that the last time.

It didn't convince me then. It doesn't convince me now.

So you want kids to be in awe of reputation? Is that it?

I remember when Saints were in awe of Wigan's reputation for the best part of a decade. Half the time we were beat before we even set foot on the pitch.

It was no co-incidence that when the generation of kids such as Danny Arnold, Joey Hayes, Prescott etc. emerged we saw a marked difference in attitude against Wigan. Those lads weren't burdened with a decade of humiliation and [urespected precisely no one[/u.

I don't want any player worshipping the ground his team-mate walks on. I'd much prefer he cut his throat for the position (in the nicest possible way).





I'm sure Sheens will do was well as the host of [uREPUTATION PLAYERS[/u Salford have foolishly invested in. Where were they against Saints?

Can you explain then how Terry Campese has been named Hull KR captain before he'd played for the club if all players start on zero at a new club?

Wasn't Morley named Salford captain in his first year there too?

I'm sure there's plenty other examples I could find.

How many trophies have Hull KR won in the last forty years?

QED.



How many trophies have Salford won in the last forty years?

QED.



If they are anything like the above I wouldn't bother. Besides, I've wasted enough time explaining the obvious in this thread. If you want players to work themselves up into a creamy lather every time some "Reputation" signs on the dotted line - fine.

More utter rubbish being spouted again. I'm sure it's a joke account and somebody messing around.

Although I don't agree with him, he is entitled to his opinion.

I remember the vitriolic comments when Maguire announced a leadership team (even some on the Wigan board) and now it's something that other clubs have copied. Strange world isn't it?

Add kevin sinfield getting the leeds captaincy at 20 before many other senior players and he's done pretty well Id say.

Wasn't Andy Faz Wigan captain at a early age also?

Some players are leaders and some ain't and that's regardless of age or how many years been at the club and Imo Burns is a leader and would be my captain.

so is Travis Burhs hurt or what?.Top secret till the team is picked for the Bunniesicon_smile.gificon_smile.gif

Burns is playing. He is going to play hooker in a shock decision to drop Roby, due to him slacking off big time against Salford.

What on earth is your problem? This is a message board. Part of the RLFANS site. A site which I and Sadfish created back when you were conducting conversations via postcard.

You seem to think this is some fantasy gumdrop universe where everyone believes your opinion [uREALLY MATTERS[/u. It isn't.

Message boards are cut-throat environments in which stupid gets what stupid deserves.

If you can't handle that - leave. No one is FORCING you to stay. Alternatively, if you want to stay (and there are plenty of good reasons to stay) - quit whining and grow a pair.

If I threw a tantrum and cried every time someone said mean things about me I'd have probably keeled over with massive coronary infarction ten years ago.