Of course it is because MY OPINION is that the coach is accountable (ultimately). I'm not gonna blame his wife am I?

Criticising players in public is unacceptable. I don't care if God does it - it doesn't make it right and you are ascribing the same excuse to Wayne Bennett (i.e. he's a great coach so he can do what he wants) as you are to KC (he's a legend so don't you dare criticise him). Standards are standards - not made flexible because of who you are.

If your boss constantly kept having a pop at you and the team you work with in public would it earn his respect? No. It's not difficult and people need to stop making excuses for him. He's at it again this morning so he is either doing it on purpose or hasn't got the basic intellect to understand that you don't do it.

I'll sum his ignorance up.

This morning's headline 'Cunningham blasts woeful Saints'

Spot what's missing?

Corrected it reads 'Cunningham blasts [uHIS[/u woeful Saints'.

He's accountable.

Cunningham has to take responsibility. It is his job to motivate the players and get them playing like a team.

At the start of the year we were aggressive and every player looked like they would give their all for their teammates. Now the players look like they might cry if the game gets too tough. They play like they have never met each other, let alone trained with each other. No passion no commitment.

Publicly slating players and then dropping Turner because Walsh is incapable of tackling anyone. But then a refusal to ever say Walsh has done anything wrong.

Leaving many of our best, most aggressive players on the bench against Leeds when everyone knows how Leeds start games.

Picking Jones at centre and Greenwood on the bench when wilkin and Vea are out and we need someone in the middle with Jones workrate, and then putting Turner on the bench and bringing him on in the 2nd row.

Dropping Amor when LMS is also out.

Persisting with poor one man tactics.

All ridiculous decisions that indicate a coach has lost his way and players are losing faith.

I realise that this is to some extent a contrarian viewpoint, but I do not see the lack of passion and commitment that almost everyone else identifies. What I saw last night was misdirected effort. The team appeared disjointed and unco-ordinated, unsure of what plays were coming next, and as a result making basic mistakes. That led to a high degree of anxiety as it became increasingly obvious that the game was slipping away, followed by further mistakes with off the cuff plays, like Percival's break, which was so stupidly thrown away by Jones. We appeared to lack direction on the field, stemming, I think, from the ineffective Walsh-Burns axis; and, as other have pointed out on other threads, that breeds lack of support play and the ability to keep one's head when an opportunity arises.

I thought the half-time score flattered us extremely, courtesy of Hull's errors rather than our own play. Whether this can be fixed in the short time left I don't know; it's a huge challenge for the coaching team, and rather depressing to experience given our high expectations at the start of the season.

We don't seem to have any leaders or good communication on the field since Wilkin got injured. Walsh with his non commitment to take the line on is cutting down a lot of our options and Burns is now lost because we don,t seem to have any set plays.

On the KC debate:

If we are replicating what we are doing on the training field into the match game, then I would say it is the coaches fault. If we not playing to the training game plan with bad executions then its the players that are at fault. We,ve had this situation before under Simmons, Brown and now KC where the players can,t explain there mental approach to and during a game, when you have leadership or an inspirational player you can break out of it, at the moment thats very much in short supply.

Has St. Keiron ever thought of making motivational speeches professionally ? What he said in the local press should only be said in the dressing room...Slagging off half his team in public won't work, rather the opposite. He must always bear in mind that these lads play for the love of the game rather than the money. They aren't premiership footballers on a hundred grand a week....Cunningham's very public criticisms could very well come back and bite him on the bum.

Lots of coaches criticise there players and performance, I would sooner he tells us at it is instead of "talking around the houses" like Teflon Tony Smith for instance. I,m not actually sure if he slags people off by name but by position, last week for instance he said our half backs and hooker played dumb, He only mentions personal names when its in the positive, Roby, Walmsley and Percival for instance this week.
I would sooner KC be honest and transparent than paper over the cracks in public.

Oy it's our (Wire) year next year haven't you heard?

Whatever we think of KC's willingness to criticise players in public, he's talked himself into a bit of a corner now. He's going to have to drop Walsh or Burns or he's going to run out of credibility very quickly.

Wilkin will be half back on his return! Walsh has had enough game time now to sort himself out, in saying that Huddersfield next week and he does like playing against the giants.

Do you tbink that Amor deserved to be dropped before mose or richards ? I think kyle been crapped on by KC to be honest.

Kyle hasn't been great but he's ready and willing and in semis you need plsyers to put your body on the line and Amor will. I wouldn't pick mose again for this club unless we have injuries.

I'm shocked that KC started messing with the team during the super 8s, in fact I just can't believe he's waited to the super 8s to do this. We all know that Turner can't tackle so why not try and fix it during the season rather than the business end? We know kyle ain't been the same but why drop him in the most important part of the season ? It's the wrong time to be doing this, he's left it to late.

If I was kyle, I would be knocking on KC door todsy asking why ive been dropped and mose still getting picked when the guy only turns up 6/7 times a year and very rare gets into double figures for carries.

I think the will be few players feeling pretty let down by KC.

He slags players off by omission - he praises players leaving silent those who he is slagging off..

Is Kyle your lodger!

No and I don't think Turner shouid have been dropped with at this stage of the season. Why wait until super 8s to start putting your foot down? He should have done this during the season. He's unsettling players and knocking confidence at the key time of the season.

I can't help thinking that Amor has been playing with an injury that's holding him back. Perhaps he's getting time off to get closer to 100% fitness.

Strange time to give a player time off

I find the more disappointing part of this the amount of our own supporters that rejoice and take pleasure in our poor performances so they can run to a forum and tell everyone they told them so. Mental is that. We are all followers of the same club, the club that is champions of British RL as we speak. The coach is a legend of that club and yet still people rejoice in his failure. It's a sad indictment of most Saints fans I know these days and the selfishness inherent within. The period from 1997-2006 built an expectancy and demand in most modern day Saints fans and now with the internet age, we've all got to have such daft views rammed down our throat. Give it a rest.

We are beyond bad at present. Last night was without doubt one of the worst games of RL I've ever had the privelige of being at. It should been over with after 20 minutes but mercilessly, Hull and Child conspired to keep us in the game with error after error.

I do place the blame at Cunningham's door. The conservative style of play is inexcusable for me. If we're gonna lose then do it having a go. However, the stark reality is that too many gave up last night. They didn't want to know that second half when Hull got a roll on. It was the kids and Walmsley trying to pull us through as always. Burns hasn't worked out, due to the role he's been given IMO on that right where he has no influence at all. Walsh is simply not the same player at all. Flanagan shouldn't be anywhere near a Saints shirt and the likes of Masoe and Quinlan on recent form for me, should be sat in the stands now. They just don't want to know. Dropping Amor was a crazy decision. Dropping Turner last week and retraining him as a loose forward for this week is even crazier.

It comes down to effort though most of it. Why the effort has gone I don't know and I pray it isn't because of the coaching. If it is, then that is going to be hard to resolve. Lose the players and you're knackered.

We on same wave length bro

Crazy team selection (in the super 8s ffs) and same old ineffective tactics. There isn't a shred of confidence or creative bone in this team.

You're right about the expectancy from our success from 1996 onwards. Many younger Saints fans have known nothing else.

I was 17 before I witnessed us winning a major trophy. We'd won a co uple of Lancashire cups, premiership trophies and regal trophy. Pretty much just scraps from the main feasts.

It was soul destroying watching the pies winning everything but at least we played exciting, off the cuff rugby. We had an identity.

I reckon Saints must be the most fancied club in the super eights; to beat that is. The way they are playing I do not see another win this term. There needs to be massive improvements in all areas and I do not see this happening as long as Walsh and Burns are at 6 and 7. Our halves must be the slowest in pro rugby.

Wigan fan in peace.
I think you guys have missed Wilkins over the last few weeks.
I must admit that until last season I never really rated him but he is a very important part of your team and is a bit like us playing without SOL albeit that this season looks like his better days are behind him. Get Wilkin back and I'm sure things will get back on track.
Still think you will get to the GF.

Don't say that. You'll end up in someone's sig.

Does the "Cunningham [sic Apologists' Society" exist? Does it have an index of card-carrying members? If not I'm calling a straw man argument.

I don't know anyone, ANY-ONE who believes Cunningham is anything greater than a coaching debutant. There may exist a few fans who prefer home-grown to the best Australian or Kiwi coach available - but you won't find much evidence to support this argument in this forum. But by all means - feel free to search whatever archival material you like. I await you skulking back to this forum - tail between your legs.

We are ALL completely in the dark as to Cunningham's bona fides. Don't try to fool anyone by suggesting our recent dip in form is proof positive because you know it's possible to dig up a bad run of form on ANY coach - no matter how successful.

So why don't you quit trying to suggest there is some kind of militant pro-Cunningham faction that you've been fearlessly fighting a lone battle against since his arrival because it's a [uBARE FACED LIE.[/u Whether Cunningham is any good or not - there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with suggesting that young coaches need TIME. Otherwise there wouldn't be any new coaches.

I'd say you are acting like a spoiled little child - but a child doesn't know any better. You do. Or at least - you SHOULD DO.

A bit pot calling the kettle black. The unfortunate thing about this forum is that ADULT debate seems to be the exception rather than the rule, and you are as guilty as anyone!!!!!

If there's a poster on this forum who is prepared to go into greater detail supporting his or her arguments I'd like to meet him/her.

So don't expect me to break out the rosary beads over my occasional teases.