With out wanting to derail, the issue is not so much the players who are out injured as the ones playing through injury, as every one of the squad players are injured.

As a 'neutral' Catalan were great last night, it's just a shame KC couldn't admit that.

I seem to remember KC was blaming his senior players so for me that would be Wilkin, Turner and LMS (despite being workmanlike). Our front row put in a good effort, but Roby should have run out from dummy half a bit more because Catalan was so far offside the first receiver was getting very little time to do anything.
Catalans won this game with power at impact 37 tackle busts against a weak effort of 12 tackle busts for Saints.
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Shirts 1 to 5 are sat in the stands at the moment watching the game so its obvious our weakness in defence and attack is out wide, its going to be a long frustrating season this year isn't it. Also KC is on a "sticky wicket" coming out with post match comments like that.

this happened right in front of me and i said the same thing to my dad. How old is Pat Richards and how old is Owens? is Richards approaching his mid 30's and Owens early 20's? not only did he get done for pace he gave up after 10 meters. How can a young winger get done for pace of a 30 odd year old winger in the 2nd half.

I really can't be bothered getting in to this again so here's my final comment on the Wires injury situation-

You've got one top player injured and that happened very recently. You've got a couple of potential bench players missing and the rest are average Joes who are filling your squad out or they're kids outside of your main squad.

I'm talking about proper injuries, injuries to starting players and good starting players at that. You Wires are having a fabulous trot of keeping your main players fit in comparison to Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Huddersfield (although they seem to be easing) etc.

It isn't the only reason you're up the top but it's helping.

Warrington First Seventeen:

Russell
Lineham
Evans
Atkins
Ratchford
Penny
Gidley
Sandow
Hill
Clarke
Sims
Currie
Hughes
Westwood
Westerman
Dwyer
Dodds

Thats only 3 players with any lengthy spell on the sidelines compared to some other teams who have 6 to 10 players out over a similar period. I think Catalans have the fewest amount of injuries and its showing in their winning sequence, they are a very settled side who can throw in a player outside their first 17 without much disruption.
Other teams are just struggling with structure, game plans and defensive reads with 5 or 6 fringe players on the pitch especially against a strong settled side.

After watching Catalans last week against Hull KR I rated them highly, every player delivering 100% and I expected a tough game last night and they delivered again. Yes Cunningham did in his after match press conference mention his senior players, but no way could you include LMS as not delivering, would a guy with a miserable face most of the time, sat in a silly hat and the largest headphones you could get inspire you? he would not inspire me! I still blame the statue, naming housing estates after a player, can St Helens sack him, I voted for Tom Vollenoven, who deserved it much more, someone like Roby is much better all round then Cunningham, does he get a statue? I feel for him he is giving 150% at the present time and being run into the ground.

Refereeing is bad, games are going longer and longer, how many video checks are we going to allow, but I think the crowd was a little bit OTT last night, there were offences Saints got away with, when will Wilkin get caught with lifting the leg of a player that is virtually tackled it is dangerous, Saints had two possible offence from Catalans put on report. I know they do not bring many fans but never have I seen the ground sound and seem so empty, on TV it sounded like a A team match used to.

Recruitment has been bad for a long time now, it is letting a top club down, the young players being produced do not see as high standard as once, changes are needed.

Not seen the attendance? last season was 12,008!

I actually spat my tea out when I read that! I also commented on that last night. He is the Coach of one of the biggest names in RL (it hurt to say that) and he dresses like a fan having a night out. As a leader of men, and the face of your club, he needs to think about his appearance, and how he is perceived.
As for what he said, plenty of coaches say things after a loss that they probably regret.

Only problem is he does seem to put his foot in it at press conferences a lot, not the brightest perhaps?

You are mistaken. Owens was not playing.

KC is not a coach, he still has a lot to learn. He may have been a very good player, but there's a huge difference in the jobs. Not only that but how would they get shut of him if they wanted to? They have a statue of the guy there after all. Do they throw a tarpaulin over it a pretend it was never there. Best you can do is make him someone's assistant, or just persevere with him and hope he gains a quick education. A statue is a fine tribute, but it should have been done when he had no working connection to the club.

Even if he bombs of a coach, he's still remembered as one of our greatest players so a statue is still going to be there.

It's to remember him as a great player, not a great coach

That was the problem! he was only ONE of greatest players, I rate Roby even better than Cunningham, does he get a statue. When the vote took place for the statue I would say half of fans today know the History of the many Great club players Saints have had.

I don't deny the man was a great player, and champion for the club. All I'm saying is it wasn't a great idea to make him head coach. A number of your own fans don't think he's up to the job, for me if the board ever wish to remove him as coach would not the statue business not be a great embarrassment to the club. The killer instinct he had as a player is missing as a coach, too much a mister nice guy. More liked than feared by the players, and for me you've got to be both in his job now.

So why would we want to cover his statue up ?

I loved KC as a player and one of my all time saints players but I didn't want him getting the job YET. If he fails I'm pretty sure no fans will want his statue ripping down

Its just come 1 or 2 seasons too early for him, he's not had the chance to be drip fed into a coaching role, he did one year in conditioning another year as assistant and then given the head coach role. Its took Wane about 8 years, Betts about 5 years and Powell about 12 years to get where they are now.
Radford (Hull) and Anderson (Huddersfield) are probably similar to Cunningham, you don't need a killer instinct to be a coach, he still believes in his own convictions and post match comments although baffling at times is something he will have to address in time.
Biggest problem for McManus is how to get Cunningham on a steeper learning curve with outside help without undermining his authority as coach, the other problem for McManus is that there isn't any available suitable proven coach inside and outside super league and that includes Powell who struggles for plan B when he has a couple of pivotable players out.

Don't take every comment so literally, I don't say the club should do anything with the statue. My point is if the board was to get shut of KC then the statue becomes an embarrassment. They make him an idol with a statue, and then say your not good enough to be head coach. For me he's not a good coach, but keep him there I don't care! It's only an opinion. And as for the statue, it's a fitting tribute for any great player, I just feel it would have been better left to a later time when he had not got such a senior place at the club. In short the club could have a statue of a man they have either sacked, or demoted. Making the chap a fallen idol!

If KC becomes a complete flop as a coach the statue wouldn't become an embarrassment at all, he would always be remembered as one of our great Legends in the game as a Player., there are lots of great players who have not managed the transition to be a good coach, its not as though our club is trying to put him on another pedestal, McManus knows his limitations and the risks.
The statue is there for his world class achievements as a player alone and nothing else and not based on future planning of being a head coach with a crystal ball.

You've come fishing mate and talking utter crap.

The statue is for his service as a player and being a Saints great. It's nothing to do with him as a coach.

If we posted this on the Wigan board, we'd be banned.

Yeh but we are a liberal lot over here.
I can see why some outside would see it as awkward to sack the best player the club has had, but it's not without precedent.

The last greatest player to wear the redvee and then become coach was also sacked by the club.
But Murphy is still regarded as one of the greatest ever to have played the game.

He too is part of a statue at Wembley, but no one seems too embarrassed that he got thrown out at Saints.


I still think the 2 year extension was an error, to compound the initial one of picking him too early.
I'm a great believer in not sacking coaches mid-season and I think we are probably in a position that will secure his position until at least the end of the season.

If we had not rushed to sign him up for a further 2 years, there could have been a more pleasant parting of the ways. But the way it is going it looks like we would have to move him out before the contract ends.


It does seem strange to sign a coach to a top flight club that has no coaching record to speak of. But we did do it with Hanley and that worked well initially.

Blackbrook are looking for a head coach, I'm assuming there is no poaching agreement set down with MM and KC.

Thats the danger of managing player that you played with a few years prior, it will always compromise your positio. How could he dress down Wilkin for a poor performance when he used to have the peg next to him.
Same thing happened when Daryl Powell first managed at Leeds, he did a decent job but it took bringing in a more ruthless Tony Smith who was prepared to drop club legends like Cummings to galvanise the team.

Smiths contract is up at the end of the year btw...

Why are people always fishing, trolling when they make a legitimate point for argument? I have only put a point of view out for possible discussion. I've not called anyone, or swore at anyone. I have said only that in my opinion (with which some Saints fans seem to agree) that KC is not a good coach, and is part of the reason why Saints are inconsistent at the minute. The statue was an aside to the main point. Off topic but relevant, these boards are for general discussion about RL and and that doesn't mean just saying nice things about any club. I don't believe I have broken any rules of the site. I treat people only as they deserve, as they treat me. but if you think I've over stepped the mark, then you must do as you please. Apologies for the off topic end rant.

That statue will meet the same fate as KES....