A big shame for gary - can't understand why the late tackle was not put on report or at least penalised.

I just knew it would all go pear shaped after we lost him and wello.
Not only were they pivotal players, but as sizzler said it impacted on the bench options as well.
After they went we dropped our heads a bit after [utotally[/u dominating them for 30 mins.

No one mentioning the blatant forward pass for the goon first try?
Having said that we were a little like headless chickens at the end and I think we did well to come so close.

the ac joint helps with arm rotation and also allows raising the arm over the head,its a very painfull and awkward injury,basically any raising of that arm results in excrucuaiting pain

It comes in different severities according to google. Depends how severe it is but it could be potentially career ending.

The Acromion Process, basically.

Not a very nice injury at all.

What was ironic was Wigan fans, and Pat Richards saying that Gardner took him out after he had put a kick through, towards the end of the game. I wonder what their view on Hoffman's challenge on Wheeler was?

It is a shame for wheeler. He was looking good over last weeks and looked up for the game today.

IMO the was nothing in the challenge by Hoffman. That sort of hit happens every week in every game. Wilkin does it and hooper was alwYs at it.

Shoulder injuries can be bad. I did my shoulder playing at haydock and it was never the same. Even 6yrs on and it still have problems.

What Hoffman did was no different to what Hooper used to do .

But having said that, if it had been on Sam i would of been screaming blue murder.

However, Hooper is not playing in today's game so your comment is irrelevant. With respect.

I have done so, elsewhere, but no-one else seems to be considering it.

I knew the farce that has become touch judges would make a difference one day, it's just unfortunate for us that it was in our game. Without that four points to Wigan, we would have won. Maguire was very well aware of just how lucky his team had been today. We were all over them until Wheeler was taken out.

And the rules were changed to protect the kicker and people were put in the bin for it

When wilkin was able to get to the kicker few years back he did it all the time.

It happens every week in every game. It's part of the game.

It simply isn't any more. They changed the rules. It's an automatic yellow card if it's late. He was very late. Should have been a yellow.

Sorry but I think he was committed to try to get to wheeler. I've not seen it on tv but that was my first instinct.

Its funny for me that this should come up as I was watching the Leeds vs Bradford game last nigfht with a load of dire fans and many people were saying that the late challenge on a kicker seems to have been driven out of the game due to high profile publicity and harsh penalties.
In fact the concensus was that it had gone too far and most teams were not even bothering to attempt legitimate tackles on the kicker any more - presumably in case of being binned or sent off.

Now this happens and I've viewed it on the recording and its definately late by hoffman who knew exactly what he was doing but didn't seem malicious. (what was deadwood looking at when it happened??)

The result is however very bad (out for weeks if not months) even if the intention was not to hurt - I think any late tackle on the kicker, intentional or not needs to be punished strongly as they are so vunerable when in the process of kicking.

My heart goes out to Gary esp after all the injuries he's been through and he was on such a fine run of form.

That was the ref's interpretation too. Quite possibly it will be the RFL's interpretation also, when they review the match. But I think that was late, when bearing in mind other similar situations (which arise every match). It was also far harder than it needed to be. However, there will be no fallout for Hoffman and we lose a great player possibly for months.

He may have been. But it was very late. When it's that late it's a penalty, no matter what generation we look at. It was so late I don't think the ref even saw it happen.

Didnt the rfl say that you had to actually challenge for the ball and not just shoulder charge the kicker ?

Well, it was Silverdud. And linesmen are all as blind as bats.

AC, not ACL. My apologies.

That's what I thought the rule was.

The game is played at such a fast pace it's hard to call but from my view I thought he was committed.

We call refs for not letting the game flow and today it was about 20 mins before the first pen was given which also created a much better game today than the games with 40 pens in.

If your suggesting we now base penalties on how bad the player is hurt then rugby has big problems.

It's a high impact game played at a fast pace and them type of tackles will happen every game until the end of time.

The game is played at such a fast pace it's hard to call but from my view I thought he was committed.

We call refs for not letting the game flow and today it was about 20 mins before the first pen was given which also created a much better game today than the games with 40 pens in.

If your suggesting we now base penalties on how bad the player is hurt then rugby has big problems.

It's a high impact game played at a fast pace and them type of tackles will happen every game until the end of time.

Note, I'm not suggesting it was the worst tackle ever, just that under the current interpretations as handed down to the referees by the RFL, it should have been penalised and a yellow card. I didn't like the incident myself, it was cheap, far more forceful than it needed to be. The sport has moved on from being able to have a free shot at the little half backs when they kick the ball.

Jesus, this is rugby not chess

So rugby isn't tactical then?

Yes it is but it's also a rough tough game played by big angry men.