I defy anyone to not be proud of this team this year. Man for man, we have punched well above our station all season. We have the worst set of half backs I have ever seen at St Helens , one decent forward, a very good hooker and a couple of half decent backs. To get to within a whisker of a grand final, people should be proud.

Regards

King James

I watched game as a neutral last night and thought you was unlucky couple of bad calls and shocking goal kicking.but as a neutral who only really watches saints on tele or when you play us i cant understand why smith plays before farges and feel had farges been on pitch longer you would of won

I couldn't write last night because I was too upset. Still absolutely gutted this morning, after a pretty terrible night's sleep too.

A few thoughts:

Ryan Morgan did make a howler, but he had also been defending against Shenton and Eden for the full game, who have been scoring tries for fun all season, and had kept them in his pocket for all but one break of the game. He was unlucky, because while it was a penalty, Child ignored many other possible penalties in those final minutes. The bloke will presumably be suffering this morning, but the only reason he was able to commit that brainfart was because of the work he'd put in in the preceding 79 minutes.

I've seen people saying Percy had a bad game. Obviously he did with the boot. But that's a bit unfair on the rest of his game. Defensively he was sound against a much bigger man in Webster, and he made a lot of metres when we passed the ball out to him - even in our own half. His try needed scoring too. If I had a complaint about Percy, it's that he's not as good as a centre needs to be at playing with other people. There seems to be very little understanding between him and his winger, and he frequently bobs and weaves and beats a man or two, but rarely passes to anyone in support after a break's been made. That is the part of his game Holbrook needs to develop in the close-season.

A weakness in our game, which is a relic from the Cunningham 5-drives-and-a-kick era is that we've had support play and effective offloading coached out of us. Saints made a number of offloads in the game last night, and lots of them went to ground, because the receiver simply wasn't expecting the ball. Contrast to Cas, where offloads always not only went to hand, but to a player who was expecting it and ready to do something with it. Likewise with breaks. The most glaring example was when Percy simply gave up on his supporting run when Makinson passed it out. In a confident attacking side, Percy would have run through whether the ball was presented or not - just in case. But our players have come to expect the tackle to be taken, so they don't push up. You also see that again and again in the middle of the park. Roby, Walmsley, Fages - all these lads get through the line and look for offloads, but they very rarely have anyone following up down the middle. Again, a real contrast to Cas, who always have support runners in numbers. That's the difference between a team which expects a pass and one which has lost the habit. This is the biggest area of work for Holbrook in the close season - teaching us to run support expecting to make breaks.

Matty Smith. I just don't really understand this situation. He's acknowledged to be slow and not particularly creative. But the assets are supposed to be a big kicking game and an old guiding head. But his kicking is average (no 40-20 for us at crucial moments), and at pressure moments when the team needed guidance, it clearly wasn't coming. The setting up for our drop-goal attempt was awful. Every single one of those plays should have been orchestrated by Smith, and he should have been in a position to have a good shot. Instead, it was chaotic and wasted. Halfback is the area where we have to take action. Last night, Luke Gale outplayed both our halves on his own (when his own partner was having a stinker). When was the last time a Saints halfback took control of a game and really bossed it? Probably Luke Walsh in his first season before his leg break. Smith isn't our man. Richardson - given coaching and time - might be. But we have to do something, because we won't win anything until we have an effective halfback partnership.

Having said all that, we were one catch and a brainfart away from Old Trafford, where I would have fancied us to beat either Leeds or Hull. Rewind the clock to even a couple of weeks ago when we were losing to Hull and Wigan at home, and that was very unlikely. Rewind to the first half of the season when we were losing to Leigh while playing the worst rugby of the last 20 years, and it would have been unthinkable. There may be huge disappointment this morning, but at least there's hope for next year.

very good point. I remember walking out of LSV at the start of the season seriously concerned that we would be fighting in the middle 8's in September. In fact, that night I was incredibly close to giving up on the club and the team.

The turnaround from the performance that night to last night is incredible, and Holbrook and the players can be proud of what they have achieved this season, and we can all be very optimistic about 2018 if Holbrook can continue to have the same positive influence over the off season.

A disappointing night, but I for one cannot wait until next season.

You did? When?

I would imagine that was 2014 when we won the hub cap and the grand final,now scurry back under your rock.

Come on no serious Saints fan can think that season - now 3 years in the past - constitutes a recovery.

Stick to the spice you get in a curry

So topping the league and winning the gf isn't recovering ? Being only a few seconds off another gf after an awful year that included sacking a club legend isn't a recovery ? You need to give your a head a wobble mate.

It was a positive blip on our so called 10 year transition period, we are looking more promising now on the field and off it financially. Wigan on the other hand need a massive clear out of players on the field and financially are nose diving after a 600k loss. To arrange a super league 10 000 miles away for financial benefit is a kick in the spuds for most wigan fans I speak to.

Saints lost over £700K and have lost over £6.5 million since moving, hardly a blip

& for balance what is the Wigan position?

Does the Football League and Oxford United owner (Lenigan) actually tell you?

Quote ="Walter"& for balance what is the Wigan position? Does the Football League and Oxford United owner (Lenigan) actually tell you?'" Ian Lenagan has no financial association with Oxford United, he had to relinquish his shares when he was voted chair of the Football League, just as had to sell his London ones when he bought Wigan. Clubs accounts can be found here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

Quote ="Walter"& for balance what is the Wigan position? Does the Football League and Oxford United owner (Lenigan) actually tell you?'" Ian Lenagan has no financial association with Oxford United, he had to relinquish his shares when he was voted chair of the Football League, just as had to sell his London ones when he bought Wigan. Clubs accounts can be found here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history

Saint's have a massive asset in the stadium they own,Wigan have what ?

They have a reducing tangible asset of around £3 million (2015) which I assume is the Old Orrell Rugby Club, I think we are almost 10 x that figure.

Only really an asset if you want to sell it. Who would buy it?
Where would you play then?

Look how much Saints owe Coleman!!

Wigan will move out of Orrell soon!!

I think saints owe about £3 million, mostly in debentures.

It's very much an asset,loans can be secured against it,not that i would want that to happen

Yes which would incur even more debt.

Orrell has been sold and Wigan will move to Robin Park I believe for the start of next season.

The stadium is worthless

Regards

King James

I'm not sure but didnt we eventually buy the 999 year old lease costing 3 million, if we did the land could be worth around 20 million.

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Ian Lenagan has no financial association with Oxford United, he had to relinquish his shares when he was voted chair of the Football League, just as had to sell his London ones when he bought Wigan. Clubs accounts can be found here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history'" Ever thought of writing for the Daily Mail - giving half a story is your speciality....... Lets look at the facts:- Both Saints & Wigan lose money Saints losses are underwritten by two hugely successful business men who are St Helens born & lifelong supporters of the club. Wigan have Ian Lenagan sharing his time with chairing the Football League and losing major sponsors (see W Warriors accounts). Saints own a ground which generates income into the club (hardly worthless). Warriors lease a ground and screw over Orrell RUFC as part of their business plan. Oh - & Warriors cheated to get Cas relegated - sorry can never resist that one

Quote ="Rogues Gallery"Ian Lenagan has no financial association with Oxford United, he had to relinquish his shares when he was voted chair of the Football League, just as had to sell his London ones when he bought Wigan. Clubs accounts can be found here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... ng-history'" Ever thought of writing for the Daily Mail - giving half a story is your speciality....... Lets look at the facts:- Both Saints & Wigan lose money Saints losses are underwritten by two hugely successful business men who are St Helens born & lifelong supporters of the club. Wigan have Ian Lenagan sharing his time with chairing the Football League and losing major sponsors (see W Warriors accounts). Saints own a ground which generates income into the club (hardly worthless). Warriors lease a ground and screw over Orrell RUFC as part of their business plan. Oh - & Warriors cheated to get Cas relegated - sorry can never resist that one

I bet Percy and Morgan woke up last Friday morning with sorer heads than my bad hang over last Sunday morning, it was not good









What was Morgan thinking......

Gotta get this season over with so I can fly south for a few weeks.