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| Quote ="Mugwump"The crazy thing is we seem to go from kicking early in our sets for touch (which I still think is a good idea - provided we do the tackling) - to not kicking at all (often getting caught with a second-row carrying the ball on fifth tackle).
There's just no in-between.'"
I put that down to poor coaching. |
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I thought KC's comments were a bit pathetic given we were just outplayed - blaming decisions again.
The forwards were OK tonight but in defence we got the numbers wrong quite a few times. For a change out right looked weak with a clearly unfit TM.
On two occasions Percy makes a great tackle and they play the ball fast and go to their left which should have been covered - bleedin' obvious when your centre is out the line - by Burns or Sav but no TM gets sucked in. That's down to training over and over again; pretty basic stuff.
The irony is, it would probably have won the game last week, but tonight the attack was tepid and the goal line defence was awful.
No way do we deserve to be anywhere near the GF.
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| And this.......
" Quote If anything, the effort across the board was too good because they tried to force things instead of being patient and trying to build pressure.'"
totally deluded/ |
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| Quote ="wirefox"I put that down to poor coaching.'"
Ssshh you can't say that on here. He's dong fine. No really, he is.
We may beat Wire at home if we're lucky.
So in a season we have gone from a team who won the Grand Final with 'half a team' and one who demonstrated sheer grit, determination and a will to win against all odds.
This year with largely the same group of players we will be lucky to finish in the p four and have played the most sterile, boring and unimaginative rugby I have seen since the Murphy days, perhaps only with a brief sojourn under Simmons.
People will keep making excuses for him but why not. It's all he does week after week.
Nothing to do with the coach though. Nope. Can't be. |
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| Quote ="Judder Man"Slightly more effort this week, but still the old one man rugby followed by predictable dumb plays. Turner looks a bit messed up now, bit late now in the season to try and make him into a loose forward should have started the game at centre where I reckon he would have had more chance of scoring than Jones.
Quinlan looking like a one trick pony now and is probably one of the worse defensive full backs we've ever had.
Don't know where KC goes from here, the players are not playing for him and our game tactics are just not up to Super 8's standard. The club needed to fix quite a few issues tonight but they have failed miserably and doesn't look good for the remaining games.'"
I've been saying this regarding Quinlan since the 3rd game he played. Massivley out of position, can't tackle, awful kick returns and avoids contact like the plague.
Imo HES on of the worst fullbacks ive seen in a saints shirt. |
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| Quote ="Mugwump"Personally I think McDonnell is a better full-back than Quinlan. So I'd add him.
And we might as well add Walsh to the list - because there is just no comparison between him and the Luke Walsh who was tearing it up before injury.
Quinlan isn't giving us an awful lot. And niether are our halves. You just can't afford to have three of the four most influential positions in the game not functioning.
Wilkin returning (hopefully for Walsh) will give us more impetus. After all, Burns and Wilkin have played well together this season.
But even so, it's a tough ask if Quinlan's doing what he was tonight.'"
We did warn you that Burns was not the player you all thought he was. Most on here thought it was just sour grapes on our part. Now you know. Thanks for the signing on fee. |
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| Quote ="Mugwump"
IMO, one of the biggest measures of team spirit is how hard players are working creating space for each other. Tonight we were lucky if we managed to inject one dummy runner into the line.'"
LMS was playing dummy runner for most of the game, we were camped out on the Giants for loads of sets. LMS was running from deep very fast with momentum, it would have been far easier to actually give him the ball. Greenwood did some dummy runs as well.
The annoying thing it was so obvious that the Giants knew what was coming and just watched the ball coming out of hand. |
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| International Board Member | 14094 | No
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| Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="St pete"I've been saying this regarding Quinlan since the 3rd game he played. Massivley out of position, can't tackle, awful kick returns and avoids contact like the plague.
Imo HES on of the worst fullbacks ive seen in a saints shirt.'"
Let's be fair though, he was a desperation signing. They obviously don't think the full back in the U19's is ready for a lengthy run in the side. |
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| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"Let's be fair though, he was a desperation signing. They obviously don't think the full back in the U19's is ready for a lengthy run in the side.'"
KC needs to do something different to unshackle the side will he have courage to change things:
I would put Swift at full back based on decent kick returns so that the kick from our set is in the opposition half and not in our half. Drop Burns and try Quinlan at stand off to add pace and to allow his strength (support play) to be more effective. Turner, stop trying to make him a loose forward and put him back at centre as we have a full team of back rowers. This means Dawson back on the wing in preference to Fleming. Wilkin obviously working as a pivotal loose forward.
We,ve had enough games now to know the Walsh/Burns partnership for some reason is not functioning, so that partnership needs to be broken, and we all know KC seems to be very hesitant to drop Walsh no matter how bad he plays. |
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Time to shake things up now, Quinlan to stand off. Looking at his highlights video he's played there before.
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| Quote ="roader"Time to shake things up now, Quinlan to stand off. Looking at his highlights video he's played there before.'"
I really don't see that solving anything. If anything we need a half who is capable of taking the line on and holding defenders up. Quinlan doesn't strike me as being capable of that - as people have said, he's basically a smart support player with nothing else to his game.
I'm surprised to see myself typing this, but I actually thought we were by far at our most cohesive and dangerous when Turner was playing in the middle. He's obviously not a natural ball player, but looked a threat carrying the ball and suddenly Huddersfield were having to make decisions in defence. Before moving Quinlan into the halves I'd be inclined to either give Turner more game time at 13 (perhaps bring him on after 20 mins once the game has opened up a bit and leave him on) or drop Burns and put Turner at 6.
Before the volley of derision begins, by the way, this isn't me saying that I think Turner is a great 6/13. But since we're not getting organisation or a reliable kicking game from either of our halves we may as well have someone in there who is a threat with ball in hand. |
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| Club Owner | 6743 | No
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Looked like KC had realised publicly slating his players may not have been a good idea so tried to counter that last night despite the poor performance, end result-he looks a bit silly.
Thought Quinlan was poor from first time of seeing him play for saints.
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www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/1361 ... _not_over/
"The effort across the board from all the players was really good and if anything there was a little too much effort and trying to force things. Too much anxiety when defending and giving away penalties.
“It was good that we got a response. Huddersfield are a great side and it was a typical game between the two sides, it went down to the death again, we had chances to win it and so did they. They just took their chances a little better.
“It was a lot better than the Hull game but it couldn’t have been any worse.”
"I thought we got into some form of rhythm at times; when Jordan Turner came on he looked good in the middle part of the field and there was some really good efforts out there.
“Mark Percival was brillilliant, as was Andre Savelio and big Al. In fact, you could do through the side and pick out good performances.
“Percy came up with a couple of clangers defensively but he was brilliant again.
“Tommy was a little bit rusty having not played for 10 weeks, but he will just get better and better but it is good to get that combination going again.”
"We played anxious which is understandable because we have gone through a few games getting beaten at an important time of the season but I am happy with the response. We can have a good week off working hard, come back and play against Leeds.
"We have a lot of people who have played a lot of rugby – all those middles have played a lot and its hard to spell them when the squad isn't as thick so the break will do them good.
Share article
“At this point in time they have to stay together and stay focused and work hard as a group and if we do that we will come through it.
"The season isn't over. Everyone is saying that we have capitulated but the season is a long way from over. We have to make the top four and we will have a good crack at that."
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www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/1361 ... _not_over/
"The effort across the board from all the players was really good and if anything there was a little too much effort and trying to force things. Too much anxiety when defending and giving away penalties.
“It was good that we got a response. Huddersfield are a great side and it was a typical game between the two sides, it went down to the death again, we had chances to win it and so did they. They just took their chances a little better.
“It was a lot better than the Hull game but it couldn’t have been any worse.”
"I thought we got into some form of rhythm at times; when Jordan Turner came on he looked good in the middle part of the field and there was some really good efforts out there.
“Mark Percival was brillilliant, as was Andre Savelio and big Al. In fact, you could do through the side and pick out good performances.
“Percy came up with a couple of clangers defensively but he was brilliant again.
“Tommy was a little bit rusty having not played for 10 weeks, but he will just get better and better but it is good to get that combination going again.”
"We played anxious which is understandable because we have gone through a few games getting beaten at an important time of the season but I am happy with the response. We can have a good week off working hard, come back and play against Leeds.
"We have a lot of people who have played a lot of rugby – all those middles have played a lot and its hard to spell them when the squad isn't as thick so the break will do them good.
Share article
“At this point in time they have to stay together and stay focused and work hard as a group and if we do that we will come through it.
"The season isn't over. Everyone is saying that we have capitulated but the season is a long way from over. We have to make the top four and we will have a good crack at that."
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| Quote ="Dux"
Before the volley of derision begins, by the way, this isn't me saying that I think Turner is a great 6/13. But since we're not getting organisation or a reliable kicking game from either of our halves we may as well have someone in there who is a threat with ball in hand.'"
Wilkin will be dropping into this role in a couple of weeks, we need a good attacking threat out wide Jonesy won't provide that, so I would revert our best attacking player to centre. Probably better looking at Turners new role off season, at the moment he looks lost in how he fits into the pattern of play. |
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| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"Let's be fair though, he was a desperation signing. They obviously don't think the full back in the U19's is ready for a lengthy run in the side.'"
I agree he was a desperation signing a d I agree Bailey isn't ready but some posters wanted this guy as first choice for next year after his first two games!
Lomax with no legs is better than Quinlan. Even SMD is better than him! |
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| International Star | 324 | No
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| Quote ="theblondebomber"www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/13617594.Cunningham_s_reaction__We_have_not_capitulated__the_season_is_not_over/
"The effort across the board from all the players was really good and if anything there was a little too much effort and trying to force things. Too much anxiety when defending and giving away penalties.
“It was good that we got a response. Huddersfield are a great side and it was a typical game between the two sides, it went down to the death again, we had chances to win it and so did they. They just took their chances a little better.
“It was a lot better than the Hull game but it couldn’t have been any worse.”
"I thought we got into some form of rhythm at times; when Jordan Turner came on he looked good in the middle part of the field and there was some really good efforts out there.
“Mark Percival was brillilliant, as was Andre Savelio and big Al. In fact, you could do through the side and pick out good performances.
“Percy came up with a couple of clangers defensively but he was brilliant again.
“Tommy was a little bit rusty having not played for 10 weeks, but he will just get better and better but it is good to get that combination going again.”
"We played anxious which is understandable because we have gone through a few games getting beaten at an important time of the season but I am happy with the response. We can have a good week off working hard, come back and play against Leeds.
"We have a lot of people who have played a lot of rugby – all those middles have played a lot and its hard to spell them when the squad isn't as thick so the break will do them good.
Share article
“At this point in time they have to stay together and stay focused and work hard as a group and if we do that we will come through it.
"The season isn't over. Everyone is saying that we have capitulated but the season is a long way from over. We have to make the top four and we will have a good crack at that."'"
Bloody Sky Sports... showing a different game last night! |
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| International Star | 2681 | No
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| Quote ="Dux"I'm surprised to see myself typing this, but I actually thought we were by far at our most cohesive and dangerous when Turner was playing in the middle. He's obviously not a natural ball player, but looked a threat carrying the ball and suddenly Huddersfield were having to make decisions in defence. Before moving Quinlan into the halves I'd be inclined to either give Turner more game time at 13 (perhaps bring him on after 20 mins once the game has opened up a bit and leave him on) or drop Burns and put Turner at 6.'"
I agree. When turner came into the middle burns and Walsh looked a different prospect.
I too don't think turner is the answer as his passing game isn't good enough but I think we will look better when Wilkin comes back. |
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| International Board Member | 14094 | No
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| Aug 2002 | 22 years | |
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| Quote ="St pete"I agree he was a desperation signing a d I agree Bailey isn't ready but some posters wanted this guy as first choice for next year after his first two games!
Lomax with no legs is better than Quinlan. Even SMD is better than him!'"
Yup, fully agree.
It's also the reason that I can't really understand why there is a clamour to put him in the halves myself. He's not shown anything to me to suggest he'd change anything. |
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| Player Coach | 16963 | No
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| Quote ="Billinge_Lump"Yup, fully agree.
It's also the reason that I can't really understand why there is a clamour to put him in the halves myself. He's not shown anything to me to suggest he'd change anything.'"
He doesn't like contact so waste of time him even playing. He looks scared stiff of taking the ball in. |
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| Club Coach | 899 | No
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| Quote ="theblondebomber"www.sthelensstar.co.uk/news/13617594.Cunningham_s_reaction__We_have_not_capitulated__the_season_is_not_over/
"The effort across the board from all the players was really good and if anything there was a little too much effort and trying to force things. Too much anxiety when defending and giving away penalties.
“It was good that we got a response. Huddersfield are a great side and it was a typical game between the two sides, it went down to the death again, we had chances to win it and so did they. They just took their chances a little better.
“It was a lot better than the Hull game but it couldn’t have been any worse.”
"I thought we got into some form of rhythm at times; when Jordan Turner came on he looked good in the middle part of the field and there was some really good efforts out there.
“Mark Percival was brillilliant, as was Andre Savelio and big Al. In fact, you could do through the side and pick out good performances.
“Percy came up with a couple of clangers defensively but he was brilliant again.
“Tommy was a little bit rusty having not played for 10 weeks, but he will just get better and better but it is good to get that combination going again.”
"We played anxious which is understandable because we have gone through a few games getting beaten at an important time of the season but I am happy with the response. We can have a good week off working hard, come back and play against Leeds.
"We have a lot of people who have played a lot of rugby – all those middles have played a lot and its hard to spell them when the squad isn't as thick so the break will do them good.
Share article
“At this point in time they have to stay together and stay focused and work hard as a group and if we do that we will come through it.
"The season isn't over. Everyone is saying that we have capitulated but the season is a long way from over. We have to make the top four and we will have a good crack at that."'"
When did 'having a crack' at top 4 become our aim? We were a point off the top and still in the Challenge Cup a few weeks ago.
We talk about players losing their confidence, but I worry that it's actually our coach who's lost his way a bit. I want to hear the coach talking more positively than "we'll have a crack at the top 4". |
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| Player Coach | 6767 | No
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| Quote ="Twentyman"When did 'having a crack' at top 4 become our aim? We were a point off the top and still in the Challenge Cup a few weeks ago.
We talk about players losing their confidence, but I worry that it's actually our coach who's lost his way a bit. I want to hear the coach talking more positively than "we'll have a crack at the top 4".'"
He does seem to have lowered our expectation and getting ready to wave the white flag. |
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| Player Coach | 16963 | No
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| Quote ="Twentyman"When did 'having a crack' at top 4 become our aim? We were a point off the top and still in the Challenge Cup a few weeks ago.
We talk about players losing their confidence, but I worry that it's actually our coach who's lost his way a bit. I want to hear the coach talking more positively than "we'll have a crack at the top 4".'"
McManus has to shoulder the blame for this terrible performances as well. I don't know anybody who thought giving KC the job was the right thing to do. Nearly everyone said he's not experienced enough and that's showing big time.
I just wish he'd have explained to KC its to early and give it another 2/3 years and you'll be ready. I don't think it helps having an inexperienced coaching staff with him |
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| International Chairman | 1988 | No
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| Quote ="St pete"McManus has to shoulder the blame for this terrible performances as well. I don't know anybody who thought giving KC the job was the right thing to do. Nearly everyone said he's not experienced enough and that's showing big time.
I just wish he'd have explained to KC its to early and give it another 2/3 years and you'll be ready. I don't think it helps having an inexperienced coaching staff with him'"
Leeds made the same error with Powell, gave him the top job too early and then took it away too early. Powell has gone on to prove he is a top coach at Cass. Maybe before Saints throw KC overboard they should consider bringing in a mentor as director of Rugby to help him develop as a coach? Either Smith might fit that bill. |
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| Player Coach | 6767 | No
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| Quote ="TOMCAT"Leeds made the same error with Powell, gave him the top job too early and then took it away too early. Powell has gone on to prove he is a top coach at Cass. Maybe before Saints throw KC overboard they should consider bringing in a mentor as director of Rugby to help him develop as a coach? Either Smith might fit that bill.'"
BIB, I disagree. He would never have managed to get as much out of the players we had as Tony Smith did. At that time, Powell simply didn't have 'it'. |
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