I'm not sure that Royce is to blame for the amount of passion that is being shown on the pitch.

I wouldn't be that disappointed if Leeds, Warrington and even the goons beat us, as long as the guys showed they give a feck,rolled up their sleeves and got stuck in.

Still missing my point, how can we bring anyone in next year?

We've no quota spots as lance is on 4yr deal, laffranchci 2yr deal, perry still has next season, sia looks to be signing a new deal and TP has two more seasons.

For us to bring a prop, halfback and replace both Meli and flannery we'd need to all English and I doubt we've got cash to spend or the is enough good quality players available.

If we'd signed a scrum half and a prop instead of a fullback and backrow then we wouldn't be in this mess.

Interesting review of your signings,


[urlhttp://www.leaguefreak.com/readarticle.php?article_id=12[/url

Look at it like this, if we had two tough and dominant front rowers, TP and Sia could be wide running second rowers, and especially with TP, he could play longer minutes and be used as an attacking weapon rather than just a battering ram for 10 mins.

I'm sorry to say, LMS has failed to deliver on his potential, Laffranchi isn't big enough and Perry doesn't appear to have the desire for it. As long as we have these three leading the way and trying to put us on the front foot with ball in hand, we will always be physically dominated by many opposition packs. When was the last time you saw any if these three put a hit on like Kylie Leuluai or get his nose through the line like Jamie Peacock?

I think Royce is on borrowed time at the moment, he needs a win from somewhere and it looks a million miles away. Our next set of fixtures couldn't be tougher and Royce has somehow got to lift the players confidence and pick up a win from somewhere. The way we're playing I cannot see us winning any of the next 3. Will McManus tolerate 7 losses on the bounce and 8 games without a win especially if that 7th loss was against Wigan? I think Royce would find it impossible to come back from that and McManus is a very patient man.

I watched the game with a mate who is a Saints fan and a group of Wiganers and they actually felt sorry for us by the end last night, that's how bad we were.

Whilst the players, particularly the senior players need to shoulder alot of responsibility for our poor form, the coach ultimately sets the game plan and structure of the team. I've not seen many Saints sides this poorly organised and dull to watch. We play with no invention until the game is gone - did we offload during the game the ball before Laffranchi's at the end? Our kicking game is awful, absolutely awful. Our long kicking game often ends in the full back or wingers hands on the full and our short kicking game is extremely predictable. If we're 30/40m out we bomb the ball. If we're near the opponents line we go for a grubber, but there's no real precision in this. It's just a hopeful grubber more often than not. How many times have we been caught on the last? There isn't one player taking the game by the scruff of the neck and dominating in this area. There is no direction and leadership. Do we have any real set moves? When we did change our "plan" from one out rugby we were moving laterally and not really committing defenders, it was far too predictable and easy for Bradford. This is all down to the coach who organises and sets the game plan in training, yet we don't appear to have one. We're rudderless on the field and at the moment we look like we're rudderless off it too.

I've never seen a team with such a poor kicking game. That comes down to no experince in the halves.

We've had Gaskell, lomax, lance, wheeler, wilkin and roby all attempt to take control of our kicking game and everyone has been poor.

Let's be fair here, of the 5 games you've not won, one was a draw, one was a 2pt loss, a 1pt loss and a 4pt loss. The Hull game was the only 2-score loss you've had. You're not exactly far off the mark. Just lacking confidence and leadership. Your senior players are letting you down and not passing on experience.

Royce needs to try and sort this out. I suspect he won't have until after Easter to try. If any of the next 3 games is a drubbing, he'll be gone.

Very good post. I think the key is the lack of any sort of invention. If you watch Wigan, Wire, Leeds and Huddersfield, then after the first few drives, they are organising for a move. The halfbacks are shepherding people, and the runners hit the angles. If you watched us yesterday, you'd say that we didn't have any moves at all. We played like an amateur side, banging the ball up repeatedly and hoping an individual would do something unpredictable. That's why Hohaia got caught with the ball on the 4th tackle repeatedly (unforgivable, in my book as an ex-hooker), and why Wheeler kept getting tackled at first receiver because either he was incapable of offloading, or there was nobody to offload to. You're right about the kicking - it was truly dire.

I'm not sure what the answer is here. We do have some size up front - Perry and Puletua are very big men : at least as big as the strike props at other clubs. The two problems we have are firstly that there are no other big men. Their replacements are LMS, Clough, Laffranchi, Flanagan - all of whom are basically second rowers (I know LMS has been used as a prop, but I used to ref the lad as an under-18, and watched him through his development at Broncos, and he's a 2nd row. Lovely speed, decent footwork, but not a hammer-driver). But the second problem doesn't just start when Perry and Puletua are off the field, because when they're on it, they're currently running like they have concrete boots on. It's almost painful to watch how slowly they take the ball in, compared to the likes of Crabtree, Leuluai, even Carvell. It's just not a major threat for the defence, and they're not getting on to their front in the tackle through winning the collision, so the PTB is slow. I'd be willing to shove Meli and Soliola in as prop, tbh, simply to get some size and pace in there (especially as Meli just isn't earning his coin with sufficient sweat right now). Something radical is needed, because playing with a pack of small-to medium-sized second-rows is losing us games.

As for the moves and the backs, that comes down to coaching. I think Gaskell, Lomax and Wheeler have a lot of talent. But it is not currently showing on the field. Shenton is a good centre with a decent step, but he is getting no running chances at all, so he never gets to use it. There is simply no excuse for a team of Saints' quality to look so utterly clueless throughout an entire game. We cannot have a game plan that relies solely on Roby breaking the line and offloading to support. That's something which needs to be worked on during training, and fast. Or McManus needs to consider his options.

If Royce goes though, who else is available? Who do you replace him with? There's no point replacing like with like.

I'd be very surprised if they weren't already looking. Dare I say Brian Noble!

Give it Keiron Purtell for the rest of the season, he's always saying he needs a chance and whats the worst that could happen? we miss the 8 and Eamonn is forced to invest in the squad and a proper coach?
Its simple maths for Eamonn 15k fans or 10k and £100k less in his pocket EVERY home game. Thats the difference between a top 3 Saints and a 9th placed Saints and i'm being generous there.

As I have said elsewhere, and as other Bulls fans have posted on this thread, this all reads like groundhog day for us. It's all almost word for word where we were several years ago. The only real difference is that ours was down to having no money, which led to a long term decline. Yours can't be down to that, so presumably can be fixed far more quickly?

Down to retirement of the senior players and top players being pillaged by union/NRL in a short space of time. In the last few years they've lost Sculthorpe, Long, Cunningham, Graham and Eastmond. Roby is all that's left. Wellens is hardly the player he was, and the young players aren't ready yet.

I can only assume your redneck upbringing left you educationally bereft and unable to read.



There sure were. Unlike you I don't know whether any of them wanted to sign for Saints. Perhaps you should ask Deep Throat?



Aside from myself and a few others no one thought we needed a scrum half. I certainly don't remember YOU putting your head above the parapet and claiming such.

Anybody who can come in and offer new plays and organise the team will be better that Royce ATM.

Would love Daniel Anderson but can't see him coming over full time? John Kear is knowledgeable of the game and could possibly take over for the rest of the season until Eamon can sort something more permanent? Brian Noble possibly? Justin Morgan were is he?

know admitting things about your rivals is difficult but its not just fitness where there's no comparison between our teams. man for man I'd take 4 or 5 of your players for our 17.

anyway, I didn't come to argue that. watching the game again, just exactly what is jon wilkin bringing to your side at the minute? as an experienced member of the team he should be leading from the front. his running, tackling, kicking, discipline and general play is very poor. its easy to bag a guy like foster or lay into wellens for being slow (welcome to the last 10 years there) or claim royce has no idea but wilkin at the minute typifies a collection of well paid experienced players who are hanging your young lads (wheeler, gaskell, lomax, makinson) out to dry. the same happened with our post mike greg team when guys like brown, robinson, aspinwall, hodgson slowly drifted out of the first team as the experienced players around them failed to pull their weight.

Totally disagree with Kieron Purtell as surly that's his job now? i know Royce is head coach but I'm sure Kieron must have a big say in tactics and coaching? so get rid of both?

The last thing Saints want is another good-but-not-great coach tied to a long-term contract as Noble will inevitably demand.

No money plus a truly appalling recruitment and retention policy. Some of Saints decisions (starting the season without a scrum half, signing a good NRL second rower and playing him at prop) are remarkably Bradfordian.

In some areas I don't think we are as bad as people are suggesting. I don't think motivation or fitness are real issues, and our defence, while far from excellent, has been much improved in the last few weeks.

Where we are really struggling is in our attack. It's absolutely woeful. There is virtually nobody running off the ball at any time. We don't even seem to do the simple lead runner and guy round the back play anymore. We are playing with so few options that we are easy to defend against. This problem is causing a couple of issues:

1. We are failing to capitalise on decent territory earned the hard way by our forwards in the first half of games. This is resulting in a visible wave of panic going through the side that only serves make the fundamental problem worse.

2. Our forwards are running out of juice by the hour mark. I think this is being mistaken for a lack of effort or fitness, when in fact it is down to the fact that our hopelessly predictable attack means our opponents can easily put numbers in the tackle against them. They might as well have 'hit me' written on their shirts.

The lack of structure in our attack is alarming, and you have to place responsibility for that sort of thing with the coaching team.

Simmons is doing himself no favours wearing the cheap looking track-suit top for interviews. It is not a good look for a man of his age and actually gives him the look of a "skip-dipper" from the council tip.

Royce's attacking strategies are open to question. But I really think the issue is far more simple: we have NO scrum half. It is nigh-on impossible to organise a cohesive attacking strategy without a single functioning scrum half. We don't even have a RESERVE scrum half.

All of those players were on serious coin, and their salaries will have been paid out to other players who've either joined the cluib, or advanced through the ranks.

The problem IMO is two-fold.

Firstly, the players brought in just haven't been of the same quality. Some came with big reputations and haven't lived up to them; others were younger players who've not fulfilled their promise (indeed seem to have gone backwards). Every club signs these players - it's just that here we've had a procession of them. Is this poor recruitment, simple bad luck or bad coaching?

Which brings me to the second part of the problem. Look at the evolution of our team over the course of Super League, and especially from Millward onwards. Millward brought a cavalier attitude to our play (reminscent of the pre-Sl era, although now with good players and a no longer financially dominant wi*an). Our gameplan was aided by quick PTB's and keeping the opposition on the back foot when we got on a roll, along with keeping the ball alive. Our defence at times was bobbins, though. Anderson toughened the defence and brought more organisation. And, although we lost the unpredictability of the Millward golden era, we still played mostly entertaining rugby.

The rot, IMO, came with Potter. More organisation, less unpredictability. Although we conceded less, we became much easier to defend against. This was the culture in which many of our players now in the team were brought through in. The Potter appointment, with hindsight, was a very poor one. Not that he's necessarily a bad coach, but because he was wrong for Saints. I guess one mitigating factor is that around the time Potter came in, the RFL were tinkering with the rules and the interpretation thereof in terms of the ruck. After a period of ensuring players had to let the tackled player up immediately with a 10m defensive line rigidly enforced, defences were given much more latitude to slow the PTB and the distance to the defensive line seems far shorter these days. We were never going to consistently drive teams back with uber-quick PTB's and scoots from dummy half, so Potter had to change our 'plan A'. It's just that he never came up with anything effective, and we eneded up playing one-dimensional, boring rugby.

So, after Potter, we needed a top level coach to get the team back to their 'entertainers' culture. Unfortunately, on current evidence, Simmons unable to do this. If anything, we've gone further backwards in terms of attacking flair.

But we cannot panic now and sack Simmons - unless there is a top-class coach available (which I don't think there is) because, as Mugwump says, it'd be counter-productive (and more damaging in the long-term) to hand the reigns to an average coach for anything other than the rest of the season, and the type of coaches who'd take a short-term contract wouldn't, IMO, be of the calibre needed to turn our season around.

The issue I have with Royce, though, is that he seems too stubborn and, when an idea or tactic isn't working, he won't recognise this and remedy it, preferring to keep plugging away in the vain hope it'll come good, when everyone else can see it won't.

The change I'd make is that, now Lance is more familiar with the team, he should play at No7. He's an experienced player and should be given the role of organiser-in-chief.

Whilst it is clear that our squad is not as good as it has been in previous years, and that we have lost some class players in important positions. I think people need to look at the squad and compare it to other teams. We have a very competitive squad on paper, but we are under-performing. Regardless of the challenges of having an inexperienced half back pairing, lacking leadership, and losing graham we should still be doing much better. We aren't doing the basics right, and we are clueless in attack.

We still, despite the current weaknesses in the squad, have the quality to achieve top 4, so questions have to be asked why it isn't happening and what is going to be done about it.

Undoubtedly the lack of an on-field leader is an issue; we're making some wrong decisions at crucial times which we wouldn't be doing if we had a genuine and experienced half-back. But I get the feeling that you could put Andrew Johns in the side and we'd still be one-dimensional - running good angles off the ball and giving the halves options should be second nature to these players, but it looks like an aspect of their game that has been sorely neglected.

Hallelujah! When will the penny finally drop with everyone else?