Could Armstrong be turned into a full back, up to know he 's been pretty good at taking a high ball, could he coached to defend like Wellens.
The reason I started the thread is because the key positions of 1-6-7-9-13 need rapidly sorting out by the 2010 season.
Wellens to 13, Eastmond to 7, Wheeler to 6, Roby/Moore to 9, ***** to 1

I'm not saying Wheeler wouldn't have a good go at it. It just seems daft to me to be talking about re-training someone who looks to be a natural stand off/half back into a full back and re-training someone who is a natural full-back into a loose forward (especially as we already have an abundance of back rowers).

Why though?

What's he doing wrong at full back?

I don't remember seeing him play at stand off but on Friday night he looked like a pretty good winger to me. The only blip he seemed to have was in jumping for the high ball, but that may be about practice or mistiming or lack of experience, as I suggested earlier. I know he was playing at stand off in the Academy but does he have to remain there? Is he a better stand off than winger? I know Wellens didn't start off at fullback and he may have gotten typecast had it not been for the opportunity to cover fullback during injury (and what might we have missed out on had he not won that spot?), so surely it is a bit early in the playing careers of these youngsters to be typecasting them? Shouldn't they be given opportunities to play in a number of spots before settling into one?

As for Wellens, he's too good a fullback still to move him IMO. He was incredible on Friday night.

Because we need a smooth transition of new players for the next generation of success.
Wellens is still good and really hasn,t lost a lot of speed but could he be more influential at No 13, also although Flannery had a good game we still havn't replaced the quality of Sculthorpe.

As I've said, I think Wheeler is doing a good job on the wing. He's very talented and playing on the wing would be well within his capabilities long term.

But would you want to waste a player who clearly has a full bag of tricks by sticking him out on the wing?

He is there at the moment simply because we need cover and he needs 1st team experience. I'll be amazed and disappointed if he ends up a winger for Saints in the long term.


(I take your point about Wellens, but the difference is he never looked like being a good scrum half, and from his first match at full back it was obvious he was tailor made for the position).

I don't think moving a very gifted full back to loose forward for the last couple of years of his career is going to replace one of the greatest 13s ever to have played for Saints.

Why not invest in a genuine loose forward instead?

It's a good excuse to get some pace into the side. We are a side with a strong defense that could cope without Wello at fullback. We lack any sort of pace anywhere on the pitch, even our wingers aren't quick. Someone like Eastmond or Wheeler at fullback would be someone to finish off the numerous breaks we make but haven't finished since the likes of Sullivan and Albert departed.

Well, I suppose there are two responses to that: I can't comment on his other talents as I haven't seen them and I don't think being on the wing is 'wasting' a player! If his talents are better exploited/suited to the wing then that IMO is where he should play. However, if he is indeed a great stand off then so be it, play him there. In fact, it's rather useful to have players who can excel in more than one role just in case we need to mix and match at injury time.

Fair enough about Wellens. Some people find their niche early on, which is great. Others, though, may need time and opportunity, which I suppose is what I'm saying about Wheeler (and indeed any of our other young up and comings).

I disagree. I think Wello is a fundamental part of that strong defence of which you speak.

Boom, sit down Leuluai. Awesome try saving tackle on Friday, I doubt many other players would have made sucha tackle and covered the ball at the same time.

In the next 12-18 months i would like to see Wheeler play more at centre as a grounding to move him infield to standoff, when he reaches 22-23.
Leon Pryce by that time would be in his 30's and probably playing in the pack or looking to retire.

The fact Jonny Lomax is now being played at fullback would indicate to me that the club are looking long term to him filling that position.

If all goes right in a few years we could see a team something like this:- Lomax would be fullback
Wheeler stand off
Eastmond scrum half
Moore/ Roby hooking

That would cover all the focal positions with talented players. Most of whom possess lots of pace.

Absolutely! Pryce moved inside as he got older. One great point is that set of players is entirely not only british, but saints academy, what a success for our academy that would be

Out of Armstrong, Wheeler and Eastmond, Wheeler looks the best full back prospect.

I would say Eastmond.

Jason Robinson was a halfback in his youth and ended up as one of the best wingers in the world, Wellens was a half back and ended up as a leading fullback - so there is no reason why Wheeler and Eastmond shouldnt play in a few different positions to figure out which is thier best.

That's true, but neither Robinson nor Wellens were [igood[/i halfbacks. The indications are that Wheeler and Eastmond are.

I've a feeling Saints will move to bring Myler in to replace Long.

He was the outstanding Salford player v Wigan last Friday. I'd love him at Wigan with Tomkins at 6.

Not sure, Smith or Eastmond will probably fill that role with Eastmond probably more unpredictable to play against of the 2.

Knowing how Wigan operate we'll probably sign Tomkins instead.

You have two chance of that happening, slim and zero.

Warrington have tried to sign Sam three times in the last two years, and been told politely to go away.

There would be more chance of Wigan signing Eastmond who after all is a Wigan supporter.

Still awaiting an answer on this.

It's worth pointing out that Wellens did not become a good player the moment he was given the full back's jersey.

His first couple of seasons in the first team were hardly auspicious. We tried him at seven - nothing doing. Centre - nothing doing. Ditto hooker, stand-off and even loose forward (in his defence, he had no opportunity to settle into any of these positions).

When he was offered the FB spot he was on the verge of being shipped out like many other promising youngsters who fail to live up to their potential. His first few games were notable for the lack of mistakes. He caught pretty much everything and missed very few tackles. At the time we needed solidity rather than attacking options because the team was packed full of players who could create space.

It was only after thirty or forty games - when he had the basics of the role nailed down - that he expanded his attacking repertoire and became the player we see today. And - most importantly - he's still working at his game. A good pro understands that the day you stop learning is the day you should quit.

The above proves the obvious (yet oft-forgotten) point that it takes time to develop a kid in a technically complex position such as full back. Mistakes are to be expected. Indeed, they are essential to the learning process. Bagging a junior because he drops a high ball or misses a tackle - or both - in a position he's yet to make the ten-game mark in is dumb. Unless the lad has the assurance of a robot it will only serve to undermine his confidence, damage his learning, extend the number of games it takes him to bed in or destroy his chance of making it.

Which brings me to the problem: when Wellens was offered the full back role we could afford to give him a lengthy period to settle in. As stated previously - we had plenty of attacking options and our defence was good enough to keep the pressure off him. The league was also a lot easier than it is today. You could pick your matches to take a breather in. The away game at Celtic Crusaders proves this is no longer the case. So - barring us signing a ready made full back from SL or the NRL - the player who gets opportunity is going to have to be a lot faster than Wellens at proving his worth. It's a tough break for the kid. But that's SL as it stands. Our game does not have a competitive reserve grade that links academy level to the first team and shapes youngsters physically and mentally to the intense demands of the latter. For Wheeler, Eastmond or whomever it's not quite sink or swim - but they'd better not be afraid of water.

Skilful player, good in defence, makes ground, creates attacking options. We,ve had quite a few players in the past who have transferred from No 1 to No 13.

Great post Muggers!

Aye, a very good post.