When was the Grand Final? 4 October, something like that? Hardly much out of September anyway. Besides, Wigan and Hudds were only one week earlier than us in breaking up for the hols but I don't see them struggling.


In the past we have had significant numbers on international duty: up to 8 players I believe. This year, in reality, only Graham, Roby and Eastmond played. Wilkin I think spent about 20 minutes on the pitch because of the injury to Shenton during the final and Moore was binned before we played Australia so he's had pretty much the same off season as everyone else. Strangely enough, Graham and Roby were two of our three best players on Saturday night and yet they really did have a shorter off season than most other players. Eastmond I'm sure would have been equally good had he not been tied to distributing the ball. So I don't think this element of your argument stands.


According to reports, Castleford kicked the Whinos to death. Presumably they played to their strengths, something Potter should take note of when coaching Saints.


That is not a valid reason for turning our rugby into a mistake-ridden dour spectacle. He can do both. We have enough talent on the field to play creative, enjoyable rugby as well as manage transition. Transition is not an excuse for the kinds of errors and limited moves we have been watching since June time.

He's got a 2 year contract, let's see how he's going at the end of it.

Since we last won the title in 2006 we've lost: Lyon, Gilmour, Talau, Long, Scully, Baloo, Hooper, Cayless etc. Tell me that's not transition.

Potter's job was always to bring through the young players to deal with our transition. In his first year, the young players got lots of game time when fit and we reached (and could easily have won) the Grand Final.

We can judge the overall job by the end of this season, by which time the likes of Lomax and Wheeler will be first choices, Moore will have had a year around the team and Eastmond will have settled at 7 for a year. That is the time to judge Potter.

If the depths that our couple of transitional seasons plumb (between bringing through our promising youngsters and getting into the new stadium without spending full cap) consist of narrowly losing Grand Finals - I'll take that transition any day. It certainly beats the Wigan transition of near relegation and the Bulls' transition of missing the play-offs.

People talk about refreshing the squad, youngsters, patience . . . but when it comes to it - they're not prepared to accept it.

That's ignoring the fact that the league is far far better than it was when some of the same players we have now were racking up points for fun against dreadful squads.

thats right mate chases short kicking game was out of this world! Leeds ripped cas open enough times to win the game but turned the ball over and over again. We made loads of unforced errors, had a shocking completion rate and the kicking game was a non starter. If teams turn as much ball over as Leeds did against cas and to some extent Celtic they will get beat. I've seen a few fans point to the Leeds result to take the edge of their own but the fact is you guys and the bulls were never really in the game both hull and hudds were well infront and the games were never really a true contest. if the ball had stuck a bit more Leeds would have beat cas

Leeds were guilty of over playing, saints looked battered

So leeds were mistake ridden, sounds like an ill prepared side.

Also there are excuses for Hull over running us.
For a start we lost three players during the game due to injury, this effectively reduced our interchange bench to 1. It was therefore no coincidence that once interchanges came into play around the 30 minute mark that Saints dominance disintegrated.

yes they were mistake ridden. I'll prepared? I would imagine the triple champs prep is pretty good, but the warm up was very short. I think few players a still building fitness. Losing ablett on 5 mins and delaney on 50 Mins didn't help. But injuries are part of the game. There were enough positives from the game, Eastwood is gonna be a cracker, delaney looks like a real find(shame he had to go off) peacock looks really fresh as does jjb. We broke the line and punched so good holes in cas. We just bombed the next phase 3 or 4 times.

There were people on this site including me that never wanted potter from the start, and for me personally Ive not yet seen anything to make me want to change my mind.

Thats the reality, the board have made several mistakes and the quality coming in hasn't nearly matched that going out. So I personally would accept a drop off in competitiveness, the likes of Leeds, Warrington, Huddersfield, Hull KR having the beating of us. But what I can't accept is how we are playing. Both in terms of the style of our performances and the quality levels. Teams like Salford, Crusaders etc don't look as clueless as we do. I wouldn't mind boring, drab possession and safety based tactics if they were well executed and showed planning. But can all the sympathisers please state how much work they think the club has done on last play moves? On the kicking game? On planning sets and how to break down specific teams, on defensive patterns on highlighting opponents strengths? It's like Saints met an hour before kick off, shook hands and had a go, that is the kind of performance level it was, shambolic at times.

Exellent reply,sums up my feelings exactly.

Saddened, we don't always agree, but I agree with every word of that. I need a lie down...

I agree with that.

They were well executed enough for us to reach and nearly win the GF. They were not well executed enough for us to beat a fired up Hull side who played extremely well, on the back of a tough derby match, in bad conditions, with injuries picked leaving us down on interchanges.

The "sympathisers" are not excusing the poor rugby on show. If we don't improve I will happily clear Potter's desk for him at the end of the year. But I won't be deciding he should be sacked one game into a new season and I'm pretty sure the board won't be either.

Which leaves us fans with a choice. Do we get behind the coach and the squad in the knowledge that the coach and squad aren't going to change this season? Or do we b*tch and moan at every little thing and act like spoilt children who haven't been bought the newest toy for the first time in a decade (behaviour we have mocked Wigan/Wire/Leeds fans for in the recent past)?

Ditto

I apologise for not agreeing with you.

We were dreadful in terms of cohesion and execution of last plays last year. The thing is we have such good individual personnel that a lot of the time we can get away with this and scrape a win when we don't deserve one. As a result we seem to have been happy not to make a serious attempt to fix problems that are always going to bite us on the backside in big games against quality sides, like the cup semi and the grand final.




Admittedly there is some dummy spitting going on, but the fact is the side are getting fundamental elements of the game badly wrong, and there are no signs that anything is getting done to change this. After an entire pre-season's work it seems we have exactly the same problems. I'm not advocating a rash change in coaching staff, but I wish Potter would address some of the basic issues that have arisen game after game since he took over.

At the moment the whole is considerable less than the sum of its parts, and the coach has to take some responsibility for that.

I agree entirely, but I'm minded to wait longer than game 1 of the new season with new half backs and injuries before making a decision as to whether Potter is addressing this.

There are obviously those who feel Potter should leave immediately (hence the thread title) and those who believe it's still too early to judge. Neither side will change the opinion of the other so I guess it's a "wait and see".

It's still my opinion that the board will judge Potter on how many of our young players break through to be regulars by the end of his two years in charge and whether we can manage that transition whilst remaining a top 3 team challenging for trophies. That's how I intend to judge him too.

I appreciate everyone's opinion is different and that they are entitled to it, but it irritates me when Potter is blamed for everything from injuries to half time oranges being late and the team is being booed off the pitch one game after they were cheered out at Old Trafford.

They got to Old Trafford because of (a) Longy's defence and (b) Kyle Eastmond's attack. They lost 5 out of their last 8 games last season, so don't make out Old Trafford to be something it wasn't. Without Longy and his two try-saving tackles into touch (one of which he only just about got away with) and Kyle and his attack, Wigan would have been at Old Trafford, not us.

The team were booed one game after being cheered out at Old Trafford, those are the facts however you wish to package them.

Anyway, truce called with the Potter out mob. I'll keep my propaganda to myself.

They were booed because of their performance and effort or lack thereof by most players. The boos had nothing whatsoever to do with Old Trafford. They had everything to do with the same old, same old that we had been watching since halfway through last season. You don't accept that, fine, that suits your agenda. However, that doesn't make it any less the truth.

I was just stating a fact. Like I said, truce with the Potter out people.

Genuine question though - what is it that you think my agenda is? You've mentioned it a couple of times now.

We had a pre/off season?! It just looked to me like the organisation closed down for a snow break, and concentrated on designing some awesome shirts (hmm).

How many of our "first choice" players actually appeared in a preseason game? 3 or 4 was it? How is that ever going to bode well for early season?! And i refuse to accept that fact that a bit of snow destroyed the pre-season plans, as that would be a cop-out.

Never liked Potter, partly because i associate his joining the club, with Perelini leaving. (Pretty sure he brought his own conditioning team with him?).

Since Apollo left, our teams have looked sluggish, part-interested and most of all, lack the motivation of a trophy-challenging team.

I was saying "Potter out!" as a joke for the first half of last season. Then toward the end of it, it wasn't a joke anymore.

And now.... well, what's improved exactly?

We only made two tackles in the match against Wigan?

Had Longy not made those two tackles of which I wrote, Wigan would have won as they were try-saving tackles and he was the only one in place to make such tackles. As you well know. So stop being silly.

Had every other player on the pitch not made the tackles they did Wigan would have scored more points than they did. Long made two important tackles, every other player made important tackles, just not as last ditch as the two Long did. He was in place because the game plan said he should be there to defend, he followed the defensive structure that was in place.

I don't see your point, are you saying Long ignored Potter by covering for the winger to win us that match?