Look we have a salary cap in place in our sport which means there is no reason why we can't compete at the top level providing we continue to bring youngsters through. We are not being outbid by other teams (Pryce going to Catalans is more than just a simple outbidding exercise), except perhaps Warrington who appear to be happy to pay transfer fees, however I don't see many other teams going down that route to success. Most teams appear happy to put their faith in the youngsters, including Warrington, and rightfully so.

There is no reason why we can't compete at the top level unless our team development fails, which given its pedigree over the past twenty years would be a surprise. If we are not spending up to the cap we are deluding ourselves when our turnover is more than capable of supporting a full cap spend as it currently stands.

The salary cap works both ways which is something people seem to be forgetting. It means that you can go down as well as up but it doesn't mean that you write off two to three seasons at a time based on whatever hunch it is you're using as your evidence. As we've seen in Australia you can be down near the bottom one year and then right up there the next and vice versa.

It's amazing how invincible people seem to think Wigoon and Warrington are when take Tomkins and Briers out of either side and they are immediately beatable. Why are people looking at those teams and writing us off completely? I've never heard such nonsense and I am a person who still has concerns about our inability to defend under Simmons. Get your heads in order Saints fans because you're embarrassing us.

Spot on post Mike but I would say that Monaghan was the key man for the Wire.

People, including the morons at Red Hall, seem to think that the salary cap makes everyone equal when infact it does the opposite. Clubs with strong junior systems have a clear advantage. In the old days you could just buy players if your juniors were not up to scratch (like Man City in the Premiership)

It is no surprise that clubs like ourselves and Wigan are as strong as ever. Other clubs that bring in a young player now and then but historically depend on signings have struggled such as Bradford. As long at we stick with developing juniors and not just filling up our side with expensive aussies then we will continue to be one of the top 2/3 teams in the league.

Superb! That's pretty much [iexactly[/i what we want, isn't it?

We have all our clubs busting a gut to constantly improve their youth development systems!

Hohaia
Makinson/Gardner
Shenton
Meli
Foster
Wheeler/Gaskell
Lomax
Perry
Roby
Puletua
Soliola
Laffranchi
Wilkin

LMS
Clough
Flanagan/Flannery
Moore

This is a team that's very capable of competing for top spot. We might struggle with injuries but still have a lot of experienced players and young players who can come in and do a job. Stop with the doom and gloom all the time!

phew some sense at last pryce and eastmond have not made us top three so losing them will not drop us to seventh

I am going out on a limb here and agreeing - at least in part - with the OP.

What I'm guessing the OP is on about is the loss of three of our best players with no-one of similar stature replacing them (I remain to be convinced about Lance and the others).
I don't think Gaskell is good enough (yet) at SO and lacks something in defence and hitting the line. Oppostion would be more worried about facing a fit pryce than a fit gaskell.

How this pans out with regards to our 2012 league position obviously remains to be seen but I personally think the team is going backwards for at least next season by the end of which hopefully our younger players will have gained more experience and suffer fewer injuries.

but how does losing pryce lower our league position? he's had no bearing on it this year. hence we would not be going backwards just standing still. this is of course based on leon being some kind of player that creates for us. for me pryce's best years where when he played off the back of long. he did not really alter the game against wigan our most crucial this year.

yes he was only a few weeks back. but maybe he's been as good as he can get?

We're weaker next year no doubt about it and without a couple of new faces, that won't change. Graham in particular is a big loss. But, apart from Catalans no other side has really improved their side dramatically which should ensure we'll be top 4. Wigan and Wire still the best two sides.

Still a top 4 team for me next year. Lomax and Gaskell will be better players next season and if all our new signings play to there full potential then can,t see why we should,t be a bigger force next year.
Being in our new stadium should have some effect on team performance especially if they play in front of 12000 fans.
As long as we don,t go through another enormous injury crisis I,m reasonably optimistic that we will still be challenging for honours as usual.
Every season for the last 3 years pundits have been putting the club outside the top 4, but saints always bounce back it's in there super league DNA.

To defend my post - I don't think it is stupid at all.It is a reality check.

Granted the salary cap does spread things out but we have to accept that we were losing big money when winning things and we now have to cut our cloth, especially as we deliver the stadium.

Wigan weak? O'Loughlin, Leulai and the other Tomkins are class acts who can break games as well as Sam Tomkins.
Wire have strike all over the field.

We have limited ability to break games and losing Leon cuts that ability further - Roby and Lomax are critical to any fuutre success. Our best chance is to have an awesome coach who can get make the team's ability add up to more than the sum of the consituent parts. I am not sure we have that either. Therefore to me we are a 4th/5th placed bet for next year unless something changes beforehand.

Having said that I would rather have a solvent club that will be here for a long long time. In 2-3 years we may have recruited smarter, youngsters come on more and we can hit the top two again.

nah i don't buy it.

Neither do I. The only team that looks stronger next season is Catalans, Wigan could be weaker in the pack, and Warrington look as though they might have kept too many old players for next season.
We lost all stability this season, an unsettled side through injury and contract disruption and not playing a "home" game this season.
Our new signings are quality and don,t know why Lance is getting all this negativity in other threads.

When comparing the strength of this years squad to next years squad you have to ask yourself what the leaving players have contributed to this years campaign.

Graham - obviously one of our best players and gets through so much work it's unreal. Will be very hard to replace. However, props are quite easy to replace, but his leadership skills will not be.

Pryce - has offered very little this season having only played a few games. He may turn out to be useful for the last few games but we still made the top 3 without him.

Eastmond - has played a few more games than Pryce but overall not had much impact on our season, infact for part of the season he was having a negative effect on the season.

In essence we are only losing one player that has had a major positive impact on this seasons campaign. So we are losing Graham but bringing in Hohaia, Laffranchi and Flanagan. Add to that perry will be like a new signing when fit, and add to that we surely cannot have as much bad luck with injuries again next season and it is clear to see that we will be in much better condition next year and I believe we will go very close to winning sl.

I dont see why people are complaining about Hohia coming in to play halfback when he has played there before ( granted its not that often but he has played there ) the modern era fullback is more or less an extra halfback anyway.When we signed Leon he was a winger or centre before he came to us and he made the transition into a 6 and as mentioned has been unavailable for us for a long while so we have more or less got to where we are without him.

Agree on Eastmond,his influence has been minor at best this year.

Jammer is a loss,but now we need to look to LMS to step up a level and Perry to stay fit ( hopefully there is another forward to come as well )

With only 2 prizes on offer all we can ask is that we are competetive and in the mix and i think that we will be.

Once the new stadium is up and running and we can get better cash incomes and sponsorships then we can look to add some more strength to the team,a few quality signings to augmnent our very good youth setup and we will be competetive for years to come.

I really dont see why all the negative posts.

I agree that, with the exception of Graham, the other departing players haven't had much influence this season.
I also agree that bearing in mind injuries and other distractions finishing third is quite commendable.

I can also see that we will most probably be good enough for a top 4 spot next year but if I'm going to shell out my hard earned cash for a season ticket I want to watch a team that has a realistic chance of the title and at the moment that doesn't look to be the case.

The only compensation on offer seems to be that Wigan won't be as good without Maguire and that Warrington have an ageing team.

S57

Do you not think a fit Leon pryce could have had us finishing higher in the table?

Could he have been the difference in the wigan game at cardiff? the Wigan gane at DW? the hull game away? the Cas game at home?
the bulls game away?

IMO the loss of pryce isn't the big worry it's the fact we've not signed a experienced ball playing hakfback to replace him.

That hits the nail firmly on the head....

We've got decent forwards, we've even got some pace in the backs, we just need that older headed player who can someone through a gap.
Maybe Ohaiha will surprise us, he may have the skill to do this but I've only ever seen him used as a utility player.

Strange you mention seventh as although whilst you are third you're actually closer to seventh spot than you are to second.

But we are still third though, and on the back of the worst season for injuries I have ever known for any team. This is a good achievement and we have more than a decent chance in the playoffs, certainly McGuire and smith won't be writing us off.

Aye. That's because in those games we had a damn fine chance of winning but ended up losing, some of our senior players were lazy a*ses and decided to do stuff like drop the ball, miss tackles and give away stupid penalties. We deserve to be no higher than third IMO but that we are in fact third is amazing given the high volume of inexperienced players we have had to field on a regular basis this season plus the constant disruption (most recent being Pryce returning and then announcing he is leaving).

Awesome!

this particular troll has been quiet recently

I think he's been under seige from an army of Trolls, Warrington's board looked like a scene from Lord of the rings yesterday

Delighted to be proved wrong!